From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 21:53:44 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 20:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] I threw In Some In Jokes
Message-ID: <301037.46337.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://mopu.blogspot.com/2007/08/quote-of-day.html


       
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From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 20:31:12 2007
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:31:12 -0400
Subject: [TML] When the Lights Go Out
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185991202.21419.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <C2D95D30.F425%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 8/1/07 2:00 PM, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Ob Traveller: A backwater Imperial system might not often have
> starships drop by, how long would absence of a ship showing up
> would it take before the locals started getting worried? Long
> Night, Rebellion, being cut off by a war...that you might not
> have even heard of yet? And if that ship *never* came what
> would the locals do about it?

This sounds like an interesting campaign hook.  What if the PCs are on such
a "cut off" world, without (at least to start) their own starship?



On 8/1/07 2:00 PM, Evyn MacDude wrote:

> All depends on how self suficent that world is, that is one of my
> favorite
> things about TNE, the Rebellion cleared out a lot of deadwood systems.

Well, by your definition, Capital would be "deadwood".  It doesn't have the
farmland to feed all those people.  In fact, all major population centers
are like that.  Yet the major population centers are pretty much the
defining characteristic of "civilization!

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From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 20:28:26 2007
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:28:26 -0400
Subject: [TML] When the Lights Go Out
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1186164002.16071.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <C2D95C8A.F425%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 8/3/07 2:00 PM, "Richard Aiken" wrote:

> On 8/2/07, Alan Peery <peery at io.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Seriously, wouldn't emergency low berths adequate for all personnel
>> (plus a few for visitors) be a standard part of every installation in
>> hostile and remote environments?
> 
> And on every ship not equipped with sufficient evacuation small craft.  At
> least, that's how it's always been IMTU.  Of course, crews desperate for
> income often (illegally) sell low passage in these berths.  So the
> possibility exists that -- when the crew needs to use the ELBs for their
> stated purpose -- they'll already be filled with folk . . . yielding a nice
> moral quandary for Our Heros.  <eg>

Either a) I'm a bad person for being involved in selling passage in ELB, or
b) I wasn't involved in selling that passage and the passenger is a bad
person for having engaged in illegal passage.

In either case, I see no moral quandary in dumping said passenger out the
airlock.

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From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 20:28:23 2007
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:28:23 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185991202.21419.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <C2D95C87.F425%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 8/1/07 2:00 PM, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> That's easy. Neither one is within the other's forward light cone, and
> thus it is actually impossible to answer questions about relative order.

Imagine the universe as a circle, many billions of light-years around.  If
the circle is expanding, such that the radius gains 1/pi light-years per
year, then 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions on the circle would be 1
light-year further apart every year (measured around the circumference).  A
naive measure would say they are moving apart at c.

But, light emitted from one *will* eventually reach the other.  This is
because the light is also carried by the expansion.  Granted, the bigger the
circle/universe, the longer it will take, but the math is somewhat like
compound interest.

And honestly, the universe expanding that fast after billions of years seems
pretty unlikely anyway.  At lower rates, the expansion gives the light less
boost, but it's needed less anyway.

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From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  3 20:28:08 2007
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:28:08 -0400
Subject: [TML] Plasma Thruster
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1186164002.16071.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <C2D95C78.F425%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 8/3/07 2:00 PM, "Antony Farrell" wrote:

> For those who might not of seen the program on ABC (Australia) program
> Catalyst here is the link to the transcript which some of you may find
> interesting.
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1994839.htm

Same principle as the ion drive.  That's the other "electric drive" they
mention.

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From tim at little-possums.net  Fri Aug  3 18:05:15 2007
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:05:15 +1000
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50708031351h5933c2dapc144cb431ec45f4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73060708011645u2221c556v69fae20f21a405e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301c7d49a$9b7337e0$2e374b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<46B129E5.9040106@iii.com>
	<5aca9be50708021404v2bc19b8cm6f2a32aeece8d4d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070803094148.GY12552@soprano.little-possums.net>
	<5aca9be50708031351h5933c2dapc144cb431ec45f4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070804000515.GA12552@soprano.little-possums.net>

Richard Aiken wrote:
> So . . . a reactionless drive ship can use its engines while "running
> silent."

Better than a conventional rocket of the same thrust, but still not
really usable.  The difference is between a conventional drive that
would require radiating terawatts to petawatts, and the reactionless
drive that radiates "only" megawatts to gigawatts.

If you started from a blank slate, you could posit reactionless drives
that use a tiny fraction of a watt per newton of thrust, but that's
not Traveller.


>  Assuming we use my idea of gravity-lenses to focus and re-direct
> emitted heat, it can also beam it's inevitable IR signature with
> laser-like focus in the direction least likely to be toward a
> detector.

Lenses, whether gravitational or not, still have the same problem as
physical mirrors.  Radiation in a tightly collimated beam has much
lower entropy than isotropic radiation, no matter how it is generated.
You get exactly the same problems of needing radiators hotter than
stars and vast amounts of extra heat generated by pumping the original
waste heat into them.


- Tim
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From tim at little-possums.net  Fri Aug  3 17:40:51 2007
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:40:51 +1000
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
In-Reply-To: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070803234051.GZ12552@soprano.little-possums.net>

Craig Berry wrote:
> Now, start in the pre-acceleration rest frame of the ship.  The
> initial KE is all in the reaction mass: 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 = 50J.  The
> final KE, with the reaction mass moving 11m/s

Actually 20 m/s: the original 10 m/s plus the extra 10 m/s it acquires
by being pushed.


> and the ship 1m/s, is 0.5(1kg)(11m/s)^2 + 0.5(10kg)(1m/s)^2 = 60.5J
> + 50J = 110.5J

With the correction, 0.5(1kg)(20m/s)^2 + 0.5(10kg)(1m/s)^2 = 205 J,
for a change of 155 J just like the first case.


- Tim
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From raikenclw at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 14:51:38 2007
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:51:38 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
In-Reply-To: <20070803094148.GY12552@soprano.little-possums.net>
References: <8dee73060708011645u2221c556v69fae20f21a405e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301c7d49a$9b7337e0$2e374b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<46B129E5.9040106@iii.com>
	<5aca9be50708021404v2bc19b8cm6f2a32aeece8d4d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070803094148.GY12552@soprano.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50708031351h5933c2dapc144cb431ec45f4e@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/3/07, Timothy Little <tim at little-possums.net> wrote:
>
> Such a drive would thus be expected to produce a blue glow for a short
> distance behind the thrusters, and no detectable exhaust at longer
> range.  The fun thing is that despite being an effectively
> "reactionless" drive, it actually conserves energy and momentum :)


So . . . a reactionless drive ship can use its engines while "running
silent."  Assuming we use my idea of gravity-lenses to focus and re-direct
emitted heat, it can also beam it's inevitable IR signature with laser-like
focus in the direction least likely to be toward a detector.  Thus,
we actually have a "stealth" starship.  As long as we allow gravity- and
tachyon-manipulation tech.  :-)

The bit where it falls down from a real-life physics point of view is
> the niggling detail of minor violation of local causality from certain
> points of view.  Well, and maybe the problem that nobody has ever
> detected a tachyon.


Details, details . . . :-)

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein
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From ajackson at iii.com  Fri Aug  3 14:34:39 2007
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:34:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
In-Reply-To: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46B3915F.1000800@iii.com>

Craig Berry wrote:

> Yes, it really does. :>

No, it really doesn't ;) (though under relativistic conditions you can 
disagree about how much potential energy became kinetic energy).

> Now, start in the pre-acceleration rest frame of the ship.  The
> initial KE is all in the reaction mass: 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 = 50J.  The
> final KE, with the reaction mass moving 11m/s and the ship 1m/s, is
> 0.5(1kg)(11m/s)^2 + 0.5(10kg)(1m/s)^2 = 60.5J + 50J = 110.5J  The
> change in KE is thus 60.5J.

Nope. The reaction mass is moving at 20m/s after acceleration, not 
11m/s, for a total energy of 0.5(1)(20)^2 + 0.5(10)(1)^2 = 205J. Change 
in KE: 155J
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From jurrubin at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 14:19:17 2007
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:19:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Plasma Thruster/Thrust Distribution Field
Message-ID: <1c92296e0708031319h89d7b62wf3b4011d38ddbea9@mail.gmail.com>

And more fun details on potential drives can be found at:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/A/advanced_propulsion_concepts.html

Some details on an Australian drive already sold to ESA is at:
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/D/DS4G_ion_engine.html

David
(no relation to www.daviddarling.info)
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From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Fri Aug  3 14:02:49 2007
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:02:49 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
References: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301c7d609$473a47c0$d0374b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry at cine.net>
To: <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field


>> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:12:24 -0700
>> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson at iii.com>
>>
>> > It's worse than that; the needed energy depends on how fast you're
>> > going relative to a particular observer, or vice versa.
>>
>> No, it really doesn't. As long as you're pushing on something, the total
>> energy requirement is constant, though where the energy winds up varies
>> depending on reference frame.
>
> Yes, it really does. :>  Let's assume you're looking at such a "remote
> push" ship from a frame in which both the ship is moving at 10m/s
> relative to the mass it plans to push on.  Make the ship mass 10kg and
> the pushed-on reaction mass 1kg, as in my previous example.  The ship
> will accelerate by 1m/s, again as before.
>
> First, analyze this in the initial rest frame of the pushed body.  The
> initial kinetic energy of the system is then all in the ship, and is
> 0.5(10kg)(10m/s)^2 = 500J.  The final KE, with the reaction mass now
> moving 10m/s and the ship 11m/s, is 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 +
> 0.5(10kg)(11m/s)^2 = 50J + 605J = 655J.  The change in KE is thus
> 155J.
>
> Now, start in the pre-acceleration rest frame of the ship.  The
> initial KE is all in the reaction mass: 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 = 50J.  The
> final KE, with the reaction mass moving 11m/s and the ship 1m/s, is
> 0.5(1kg)(11m/s)^2 + 0.5(10kg)(1m/s)^2 = 60.5J + 50J = 110.5J  The
> change in KE is thus 60.5J.
>
> Again, the same maneuver takes different amounts of energy depending
> on the frame in which it's being observed, which breaks physics.
>
Yeah, I tend to have Heretical tendancies (I am Lutheran, after all), but 
again, this frame of reference idea that I've seen used in a wide variety of 
places (not just here) sounds more and more like the ancient Greek 
philosophers arguing about why you can't walk through a door because the 
distance between you and the door can always be cut in half.

But then, I also think that multiplication and division by zero should be 
treated the same as multiplcation and division by 1.

Garry
> -- 
> Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
> "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." - William Blake
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 


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From cberry at cine.net  Fri Aug  3 13:51:23 2007
From: cberry at cine.net (Craig Berry)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:51:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Thrust Distribution Field
Message-ID: <8dee73060708031251n7743696dr6d7b7a499613764c@mail.gmail.com>

> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:12:24 -0700
> From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson at iii.com>
>
> > It's worse than that; the needed energy depends on how fast you're
> > going relative to a particular observer, or vice versa.
>
> No, it really doesn't. As long as you're pushing on something, the total
> energy requirement is constant, though where the energy winds up varies
> depending on reference frame.

Yes, it really does. :>  Let's assume you're looking at such a "remote
push" ship from a frame in which both the ship is moving at 10m/s
relative to the mass it plans to push on.  Make the ship mass 10kg and
the pushed-on reaction mass 1kg, as in my previous example.  The ship
will accelerate by 1m/s, again as before.

First, analyze this in the initial rest frame of the pushed body.  The
initial kinetic energy of the system is then all in the ship, and is
0.5(10kg)(10m/s)^2 = 500J.  The final KE, with the reaction mass now
moving 10m/s and the ship 11m/s, is 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 +
0.5(10kg)(11m/s)^2 = 50J + 605J = 655J.  The change in KE is thus
155J.

Now, start in the pre-acceleration rest frame of the ship.  The
initial KE is all in the reaction mass: 0.5(1kg)(10m/s)^2 = 50J.  The
final KE, with the reaction mass moving 11m/s and the ship 1m/s, is
0.5(1kg)(11m/s)^2 + 0.5(10kg)(1m/s)^2 = 60.5J + 50J = 110.5J  The
change in KE is thus 60.5J.

Again, the same maneuver takes different amounts of energy depending
on the frame in which it's being observed, which breaks physics.

-- 
Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." - William Blake
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From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Tue Aug 14 22:11:16 2007
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:11:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] The TML Lives
Message-ID: <61F8FAD4-894E-48EF-B3B3-E1A025742154@travellercentral.com>

I've got the basic TML up and running, and will work on adding back  
archive searching, and older archives.  In the mean time, please feel  
free tpo post and report any problem to listmom at travellercentral.com.

Thanks, Tod

From chris at vindaloo.com  Wed Aug 15 07:05:22 2007
From: chris at vindaloo.com (Christopher Hilton)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:05:22 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thank you Tod
Message-ID: <46C2FA12.8080403@vindaloo.com>

Thanks for getting the list back up.

-- Chris


-- 
       __o          "All I was doing was trying to get home from work."
     _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
___(*)/_(*)___________________________________________________________
Christopher Sean Hilton                    <chris | at | vindaloo.com>
         pgp key: D0957A2D/f5 30 0a e1 55 76 9b 1f 47 0b 07 e9 75 0e 14

From chris at vindaloo.com  Wed Aug 15 07:06:52 2007
From: chris at vindaloo.com (Christopher Hilton)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:06:52 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thanks to Rob also
Message-ID: <46C2FA6C.6050900@vindaloo.com>

Thanks to Rob also.

-- Chris

-- 
       __o          "All I was doing was trying to get home from work."
     _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
___(*)/_(*)___________________________________________________________
Christopher Sean Hilton                    <chris | at | vindaloo.com>
         pgp key: D0957A2D/f5 30 0a e1 55 76 9b 1f 47 0b 07 e9 75 0e 14

From mcrobertson at cix.compulink.co.uk  Wed Aug 15 07:19:00 2007
From: mcrobertson at cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
Message-ID: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <46C2FA6C.6050900 at vindaloo.com>
Good to have the TML back in working order. Well done all!

Hugs & kisses,

Mexal.


From prevattec at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 15 07:47:55 2007
From: prevattec at bellsouth.net (Charles Prevatte)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:47:55 -0400
Subject: [TML] Thank you Tod
In-Reply-To: <46C2FA12.8080403@vindaloo.com>
Message-ID: <MBEAJJGCODCGMGHDMICJIEMIFNAA.prevattec@bellsouth.net>

Yes, many thank to all that brought back our dear friend the TML.

Charles L.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hilton
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:05 AM
> To: tml at travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Thank you Tod
>
>
> Thanks for getting the list back up.
>
> -- Chris
>
>
> --
>        __o          "All I was doing was trying to get home from work."
>      _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
> ___(*)/_(*)___________________________________________________________
> Christopher Sean Hilton                    <chris | at | vindaloo.com>
>          pgp key: D0957A2D/f5 30 0a e1 55 76 9b 1f 47 0b 07 e9 75 0e 14
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date:
> 8/13/2007 10:15 AM
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007
10:15 AM


From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 07:47:39 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 06:47:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Trivia
Message-ID: <305006.7731.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for bringing back the TML.

And now, some trivia.

http://mopu.blogspot.com/2007/08/trivia.html


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

From darbyeckles at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 08:39:03 2007
From: darbyeckles at yahoo.com (darby eckles)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
Message-ID: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

With the list mostly back up, I thought I'd spin this out there for discussion, argument, and crying or cheering.  I'm sure it's been brought up before, but I missed it.
  Yep, I'm talking about Mongoose doing some Traveller:
   
  http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=166&PHPSESSID=71eca377e2113de8bede5426a62e57ae
   
  Thoughts?  Comments?

Darby

       
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From res053z0 at gte.net  Wed Aug 15 08:58:37 2007
From: res053z0 at gte.net (Robert Kevin Walsh)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:58:37 -0500
Subject: [TML]  Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>

Traveller Hero will end up being a 2 book set, graphics minimal, 
except for some maps and deck plans.

were just awaiting Steve Longs final approval before making it available.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html

heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html

I will post a note when the books are for sale.
its being published by Com-Star Games through a license with Avenger
http://www.comstar-games.com/

they will be available first in PDF, through various sites


From joshua.stockwell at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 09:02:15 2007
From: joshua.stockwell at gmail.com (Joshua Stockwell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:02:15 -0400
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>
Message-ID: <67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering if it would be published considering the recent
Moongoose/Far Future announcement. The announcement made it appear that
other licenses might have been terminated.

On 8/15/07, Robert Kevin Walsh <res053z0 at gte.net> wrote:
>
> Traveller Hero will end up being a 2 book set, graphics minimal,
> except for some maps and deck plans.
>
> were just awaiting Steve Longs final approval before making it available.
>
> http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html
>
> heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
> http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html
>
> I will post a note when the books are for sale.
> its being published by Com-Star Games through a license with Avenger
> http://www.comstar-games.com/
>
> they will be available first in PDF, through various sites
>
>
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From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 09:14:51 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 08:14:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>

At 7:39 AM -0700 8/15/07, darby eckles wrote:
>With the list mostly back up, I thought I'd spin this out there for 
>discussion, argument, and crying or cheering.  I'm sure it's been 
>brought up before, but I missed it.
>Yep, I'm talking about Mongoose doing some Traveller:
>

This is actually why I realized the TML was down.  I sent out a 
message and it never made it through.

><http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=166&PHPSESSID=71eca377e2113de8bede5426a62e57ae>http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=166&PHPSESSID=71eca377e2113de8bede5426a62e57ae
>
>Thoughts?  Comments?

Because of MRQ and the MRQ SRD I don't trust Mongoose, and I question 
their ethics.  While what they've done might be *legal*, I don't 
consider it to be ethical.  As far as I'm concerned the MRQ SRD is 
the equivalent of stealing a car and filing off the Vehicle ID 
Numbers!  From where I'm sitting they're trying to hijack the BRP 
system and create market confusion just as Chaosium is trying to 
release their new BRP ruleset, and license it to other companies.

When was the last time Mongoose created something *original* rather 
than something based on someone else's work?  This is a serious 
question, I think they've attempted it with one or two of their 
miniature games, but I'm not sure.  Basically any Mongoose RPG 
product I've seen is based on the work of others.

I *REALLY* hope Marc Miller knows what he is getting into.  I don't 
like White Wolf either (for comments they made about gamers that 
don't play their games a long time ago), however, they've slowly 
started to earn my respect in recent years, and I'd much rather have 
seen Traveller associated with them.

Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From erisred at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 15 09:24:20 2007
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:24:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yippy!
Message-ID: <46C31AA4.9010107@bellsouth.net>

Thanks Rob and Tod for all your work!

Eris

From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 09:25:47 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:25:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>
	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>

It will be published. The Avenger license has a while to run yet.


I seem to have been resubbed despite my best efforts. 
Oh well, let's see how long it takes the usual idiots to ambush me with their ground-to-a-sliver axes. 

And yes, I'm aware that's inflammatory. 

Having recently chosen to unsub from TML because certain people just will not leave me alone, having reminded Rob that I didn't want resubbing when the list was recreated, and STILL finding myself on here... well, let's just say I'm no longer inclined to be my usual tolerant self. 

Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter:
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE TRAVELLER.

There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.




  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joshua Stockwell 
  To: The Traveller Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [TML] Traveller Hero


  I was wondering if it would be published considering the recent Moongoose/Far Future announcement. The announcement made it appear that other licenses might have been terminated.


  On 8/15/07, Robert Kevin Walsh <res053z0 at gte.net> wrote: 
    Traveller Hero will end up being a 2 book set, graphics minimal,
    except for some maps and deck plans.

    were just awaiting Steve Longs final approval before making it available.

    http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html 

    heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
    http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html

    I will post a note when the books are for sale. 
    its being published by Com-Star Games through a license with Avenger
    http://www.comstar-games.com/

    they will be available first in PDF, through various sites




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  TML mailing list
  TML at travellercentral.com
  http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
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From inthefireforged at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 09:28:17 2007
From: inthefireforged at yahoo.com (inthefireforged at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:28:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net><67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com><001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <59185378-1187191702-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-948418910-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Well met, Mr Dougherty! Right glad I am to see you return, dispite your misgivings!

APD
Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net>

Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:25:47 
To:"The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Traveller Hero


It will be published. The Avenger license has a while to run yet. 
? 
? 
I seem to have been resubbed despite my best efforts. 
Oh well, let's see how long it takes the usual idiots to ambush me with their ground-to-a-sliver axes. 
? 
And yes, I'm aware that's inflammatory. 
? 
Having recently chosen to unsub from TML because certain people just will not leave me alone, having reminded Rob that I didn't want resubbing when the list was recreated, and STILL finding myself on here... well, let's just say I'm no longer inclined to be my usual tolerant self. 
? 
Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter: 
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE TRAVELLER. 
? 
There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin. 
? 
? 
? 
? 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joshua Stockwell <mailto:joshua.stockwell at gmail.com>  
To: The Traveller Mailing List <mailto:tml at travellercentral.com>  
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [TML] Traveller Hero 

I was wondering if it would be published considering the recent Moongoose/Far Future announcement. The announcement made it appear that other licenses?might have?been terminated.

 
On 8/15/07, Robert Kevin Walsh <res053z0 at gte.net <mailto:res053z0 at gte.net> > wrote: Traveller Hero will end up being a 2 book set, graphics minimal,
except for some maps and deck plans.

were just awaiting Steve Longs final approval before making it available.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html 
     <http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html> 

heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html <http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html> 

I will post a note when the books are for sale. 
its being published by Com-Star Games through a license with Avenger
http://www.comstar-games.com/ <http://www.comstar-games.com/> 

they will be available first in PDF, through various sites

 
 
----------------
 
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML at travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML at travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 09:31:10 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:31:10 +0100
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>

>
> Because of MRQ and the MRQ SRD I don't trust Mongoose, and I question
> their ethics.  While what they've done might be *legal*, I don't
> consider it to be ethical.  As far as I'm concerned the MRQ SRD is
> the equivalent of stealing a car and filing off the Vehicle ID
> Numbers!  From where I'm sitting they're trying to hijack the BRP
> system and create market confusion just as Chaosium is trying to
> release their new BRP ruleset, and license it to other companies.
>
> When was the last time Mongoose created something *original* rather
> than something based on someone else's work?  This is a serious
> question, I think they've attempted it with one or two of their
> miniature games, but I'm not sure.  Basically any Mongoose RPG
> product I've seen is based on the work of others.
>
> I *REALLY* hope Marc Miller knows what he is getting into.  I don't
> like White Wolf either (for comments they made about gamers that
> don't play their games a long time ago), however, they've slowly
> started to earn my respect in recent years, and I'd much rather have
> seen Traveller associated with them.
>
>

Oh look, it's started.

For my part I find Mongoose very professional and good to work with.
They pay their freelancers what they say they will and usually even on time!
Put that another way... Mongoose is the only games company (apart from my 
own Avenger) that I still work with.

Products are generally good, even the ones I didn't write.









From osborne6 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 09:32:49 2007
From: osborne6 at gmail.com (John Osborne)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thank you Tod
In-Reply-To: <46C2FA12.8080403@vindaloo.com>
References: <46C2FA12.8080403@vindaloo.com>
Message-ID: <324fccf0708150832rb64f111q41b8444c31c5fd32@mail.gmail.com>

so have the parties responsible for wrecking the list been lart-ed yet?

On 8/15/07, Christopher Hilton <chris at vindaloo.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for getting the list back up.
>
> -- Chris
>
>
> --
>        __o          "All I was doing was trying to get home from work."
>      _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
> ___(*)/_(*)___________________________________________________________
> Christopher Sean Hilton                    <chris | at | vindaloo.com>
>          pgp key: D0957A2D/f5 30 0a e1 55 76 9b 1f 47 0b 07 e9 75 0e 14
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>



-- 
John Osborne
osborne6 at ieee.org/osborne6 at gmail.com/jro at freeshell.org
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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 09:33:17 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:17 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net><67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com><001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<59185378-1187191702-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-948418910-@bxe114.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <002e01c7df51$9b0f1370$76411f56@DF8Y032J>



Well met, Mr Dougherty! Right glad I am to see you return, dispite your 
misgivings!

*** Heh, well.  It probably won't last.

Right now I'm in the middle of a book on tanks, with A History Of Land 
Warfare to do just after. Plus the threat of Mongoose-Traveller work and my 
own Translight/Far Avalon game development.

Oh, and I got my Weapons Instructor/Advanced Instructorship In Self Defence 
at the weekend.
I'm still walking funny from that one... 


From dave.shillito at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 09:33:27 2007
From: dave.shillito at gmail.com (DAve Shillito)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:33:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
In-Reply-To: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
References: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7c2152230708150833mdf926b0y28a6e12bd5d25f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:19 +0100 (BST), Megan Robertson wrote:
>
> Good to have the TML back in working order. Well done all!
>

And I add my thanks to join the others!


DAve

(conspiracy theory time.... who had most to gain by bringing down the
TML on the same day as the T5/Mongoose announcement? <evil grin>)

From erisred at bellsouth.net  Wed Aug 15 09:58:00 2007
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <46C32288.2050506@bellsouth.net>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> It will be published. The Avenger license has a while to run yet.
>  
>  
> I seem to have been resubbed despite my best efforts.
> Oh well, let's see how long it takes the usual idiots to ambush me with 
> their ground-to-a-sliver axes.
>  
> And yes, I'm aware that's inflammatory.
>  
> Having recently chosen to unsub from TML because certain people just 
> will not leave me alone, having reminded Rob that I didn't want 
> resubbing when the list was recreated, and STILL finding myself on 
> here... well, let's just say I'm no longer inclined to be my usual 
> tolerant self.
>  
> Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter:
> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE TRAVELLER.
>  
> There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.

Martin, it was a sad day when you left the list!

Why don't you just ignore those that bother you? I mean it, if 
an ax-grinder replies to one of your posts, and it makes you 
feel in any way angry, totally ignore them.

I've been here a long, long time, don't post a lot, but I'm 
around. There are people on the TML who have attitudes and 
opinions that bug me, get me in arguments, make me mad, but I 
have a way of dealing...I simply don't acknowledge them in any 
way. I post what I want to post, when I want to post it. But I 
refuse to argue with anyone on the list. I've even got some 
posters on my ignore list, so I don't even see their posts. 
Doing things this way keeps me happy and occasionally irks 
those I won't acknowledge...which, I must admit, also makes me 
happy.

IAC, welcome back to the group. Please, stay this time.

Now...Traveller Hero doesn't really interest me. The few times 
I dealt with Hero it seemed much to rules heavy and "fiddly" 
for my tastes.  OTOH, I'm hoping RTT (Riki Tiki Traveller - 
don't tell me it won't come to that ;)) really *does* follow 
in the path of CT and KISS with regards the rules.

Eris

From darbyeckles at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 10:05:09 2007
From: darbyeckles at yahoo.com (darby eckles)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <761743.16719.qm@web39706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

     Hey Martin, pesonally, I'm glad that you may be involved in what Mongoose is working on.  I'm not sure I really understand their info release on the subject, but we all know you to be an upstanding and heart-feeling Travellerite (despite the peanut gallery), and I for one would feel much more comfortable about the whole thing with you "in the loop".  Avengers products have been great, and all the above is not sycophancy, just an opinion based on having acutally used some of your work, and having my players enjoy the experience.  That last part there is the most important to me.
      I'm sure you have signed/will be signing multiple "I swear we'll cut your arms off at the knees if you tell" non-disclosure agreements, but anything you could throw out would be appreciated.
   
  Hey, check that out, no gnashing of teeth!
  
Darby

MJ Dougherty <martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net> wrote:
          It will be published. The Avenger license has a while to run yet.
   
   
  I seem to have been resubbed despite my best efforts. 
  Oh well, let's see how long it takes the usual idiots to ambush me with their ground-to-a-sliver axes. 
   
  And yes, I'm aware that's inflammatory. 
   
  Having recently chosen to unsub from TML because certain people just will not leave me alone, having reminded Rob that I didn't want resubbing when the list was recreated, and STILL finding myself on here... well, let's just say I'm no longer inclined to be my usual tolerant self. 
   
  Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter:
  IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE TRAVELLER.
   
  There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
   
   
   
   
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joshua Stockwell 
  To: The Traveller Mailing List 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [TML] Traveller Hero
  

I was wondering if it would be published considering the recent Moongoose/Far Future announcement. The announcement made it appear that other licenses might have been terminated.

  On 8/15/07, Robert Kevin Walsh <res053z0 at gte.net> wrote:   Traveller Hero will end up being a 2 book set, graphics minimal,
except for some maps and deck plans.

were just awaiting Steve Longs final approval before making it available.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/rules/convert/travhero.html 

heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html

I will post a note when the books are for sale. 
its being published by Com-Star Games through a license with Avenger
http://www.comstar-games.com/

they will be available first in PDF, through various sites


    
---------------------------------
    
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML at travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML at travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml


       
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
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From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 10:06:07 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:06:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>
	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0624085bc2e8cf960596@[192.168.1.199]>

At 11:02 AM -0400 8/15/07, Joshua Stockwell wrote:
>I was wondering if it would be published considering the recent 
>Moongoose/Far Future announcement. The announcement made it appear 
>that other licenses might have been terminated.

 From what I've been able to find out, apparently the current licenses 
won't be terminated, they simply won't be renewed.  Oddly enough 
GURPS looks to be the one exception to this, it sounds like they can 
renew if SJG's and Marc Miller wish it.

All in all it seems strange to me.

>On 8/15/07, Robert Kevin Walsh 
><<mailto:res053z0 at gte.net>res053z0 at gte.net> wrote:
>heres also a sample of the deckplans were going to use
><http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html>http://members.cox.net/alathan/deckplans.html

Very nice!  These are enough to tempt me to buy the book, even though 
I've not done anything with the HERO system in well over a decade.

		Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 10:08:43 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:08:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
In-Reply-To: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
References: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p0624085cc2e8d51f51a8@[192.168.1.199]>

At 2:19 PM +0100 8/15/07, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <46C2FA6C.6050900 at vindaloo.com>
>Good to have the TML back in working order. Well done all!

Agreed!  This has been a traumatic summer.  First one of the two web 
boards I am active on was hacked and off-line for a good chunk of a 
month, and no sooner were they back on line and TML got hit.

It really ticks me off that some people have to mess things up for so 
many others.

	Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From ajackson at iii.com  Wed Aug 15 10:25:52 2007
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:25:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <46C32910.50509@iii.com>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

> For my part I find Mongoose very professional and good to work with.
> They pay their freelancers what they say they will and usually even on time!
> Put that another way... Mongoose is the only games company (apart from my 
> own Avenger) that I still work with.

Heh. Those are excellent qualities in a publisher -- from the 
perspective of a writer. They are not, however, relevant to a consumer, 
except to the extent that it also implies that they are likely to 
produce product on schedule (which is a good thing).

As for the MRQ vs Chaosium thing -- Chaosium is not a company to throw 
stones on the ethics issue. They have distinct problems with paying 
their freelancers, for example.

From andrew.long at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 10:27:51 2007
From: andrew.long at yahoo.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:27:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
In-Reply-To: <p0624085cc2e8d51f51a8@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
	<p0624085cc2e8d51f51a8@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <72A87A42-527F-4422-A90A-FF47E40E86CE@yahoo.com>


On 15 Aug 2007, at 17:08, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> At 2:19 PM +0100 8/15/07, Megan Robertson wrote:
>> In-Reply-To: <46C2FA6C.6050900 at vindaloo.com>
>> Good to have the TML back in working order. Well done all!
>
> Agreed!  This has been a traumatic summer.  First one of the two web
> boards I am active on was hacked and off-line for a good chunk of a
> month, and no sooner were they back on line and TML got hit.
>
<Snip/>

What they all said...

Regards, Andy

-- 
Andrew Long
andrew dot long at yahoo dot com




From helvorn at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 10:58:12 2007
From: helvorn at yahoo.com (Matt Ashley)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:58:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
In-Reply-To: <7c2152230708150833mdf926b0y28a6e12bd5d25f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <809496.22948.qm@web60415.mail.yahoo.com>


Good job!  Thanks guys.

Matt

       
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From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 11:07:53 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:07:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]>

At 4:31 PM +0100 8/15/07, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Oh look, it's started.

You do realize that none of my comments were targeted at you?

>For my part I find Mongoose very professional and good to work with.
>They pay their freelancers what they say they will and usually even on time!
>Put that another way... Mongoose is the only games company (apart from my
>own Avenger) that I still work with.

I understand that they are apparently better to work with than a lot 
of the companies out there, and there doesn't seem to be problems 
with getting them to pay the people that do the work.  There is no 
denying they're better than a certain company that I like.

Just because they treat the people that work for them well, that 
doesn't mean that they conduct all of their affairs in an ethical 
manner.  As I stated in my message, I find the whole MRQ SRD affair 
to be unethical.  I'm not alone in that feeling.

>Products are generally good, even the ones I didn't write.

Time and time again I see complaints that the 1st editions have 
numerous problems, but that the 2nd editions correct those.  They 
have done numerous products that are of interest to me, though I've 
only purchased one, as I don't really do D20.

They do get good licenses, though some of the stuff they've licensed 
and are releasing doesn't seem targeted at a US audience.  How many 
people in the US have ever read Strontium Dog, definitely a *LOT* 
fewer than in the UK.  To the best of my knowledge no comic company 
has done reprints in the US since the early 80's and very few people 
get 2000AD in the US.

		Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From andrew.long at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:16:37 2007
From: andrew.long at yahoo.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:16:37 +0100
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>


On 15 Aug 2007, at 18:07, Zane H. Healy wrote:

> At 4:31 PM +0100 8/15/07, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Oh look, it's started.
>
> You do realize that none of my comments were targeted at you?
>
>> For my part I find Mongoose very professional and good to work with.
>> They pay their freelancers what they say they will and usually  
>> even on time!
>> Put that another way... Mongoose is the only games company (apart  
>> from my
>> own Avenger) that I still work with.
>
> <snip/>
> Just because they treat the people that work for them well, that
> doesn't mean that they conduct all of their affairs in an ethical
> manner.  As I stated in my message, I find the whole MRQ SRD affair
> to be unethical.  I'm not alone in that feeling.
>
Sorry, I'm not that good on TLAs. What's MRQ SRD?

Regards, Andy
-- 
Andrew Long
andrew dot long at yahoo dot com




From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 11:20:21 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:20:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <46C32910.50509@iii.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J> <46C32910.50509@iii.com>
Message-ID: <p0624085ec2e8e3c5c0b8@[192.168.1.199]>

At 9:25 AM -0700 8/15/07, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>As for the MRQ vs Chaosium thing -- Chaosium is not a company to throw
>stones on the ethics issue. They have distinct problems with paying
>their freelancers, for example.

There is no denying that numerous freelancers have had problems 
getting paid, though I believe they all got paid eventually.  It is 
worth remembering that Chaosium was basically bankrupt and deeply in 
debt due to the CCG debacle of the late 90's.  This included owing 
the US government a huge amount of money in back taxes.  They didn't 
take the easy route that so many other game companies have taken, 
they stuck it out through the hard times, and paid off all of their 
debts.  I'm not sure, but I think they are either out of debt now, or 
largely out of debt.

Personally I think that while Chaosium hasn't done the best, overall 
they are to be commended for their dealing with the whole situation. 
Most would have simply filed for bankruptcy and/or shutdown 
operations, never paying off any of the debt.

Now what I'd really like to know is what is the story with the 
Micheal Moorcock licenses.  Did Mongoose poach them, or license them 
from Chaosium?

		Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From rgbasler at adelphia.net  Wed Aug 15 11:42:51 2007
From: rgbasler at adelphia.net (rgbasler at adelphia.net)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:42:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
Message-ID: <28151355.1187199771920.JavaMail.root@web35>


---- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: 
> At 9:25 AM -0700 8/15/07, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >As for the MRQ vs Chaosium thing -- Chaosium is not a company to throw
> >stones on the ethics issue. They have distinct problems with paying
> >their freelancers, for example.
> 
> There is no denying that numerous freelancers have had problems 
> getting paid, though I believe they all got paid eventually.  

Well, _I_ got paid, but it was like pulling teeth.  And my work for them was recent.

     - Rod Basler, COFIT (Crotchety Old Fart In Training)

[Oh yeah, shameless plug in case you are interested:  The Gaslight Equipment Catalogue - http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?cPath=55&products_id=722 ]


From gmgoffin at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:44:36 2007
From: gmgoffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:44:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
Message-ID: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Tod and Rob deserve praise for their dedication to our community. 
They got the list back up just in time.  I was actually starting to
do some productive work this morning!

--Glenn


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
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From atpollard at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:50:35 2007
From: atpollard at yahoo.com (Arthur Pollard)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <705168.15903.qm@web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter:
> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE
> TRAVELLER.
> 
> There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.

Since you seem to be looking for trouble, let me help.
:WINK:
Is there a chance that the book that was pre-ordered
under QLI, revised and published by Avenger, and then
sent to those who pre-ordered at QLI, will be
available through Mongoose as well? They have a press
and that might set some sort of a record for the most
publishers of the EXACT same product.

Hello MJD. I'm just having some fun on your dime. No
harm intended.


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
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From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 11:53:55 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:53:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]>
	<01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240860c2e8e9e83104@[192.168.1.199]>

At 6:16 PM +0100 8/15/07, Andrew Long wrote:
>On 15 Aug 2007, at 18:07, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>  > Just because they treat the people that work for them well, that
>>  doesn't mean that they conduct all of their affairs in an ethical
>>  manner.  As I stated in my message, I find the whole MRQ SRD affair
>>  to be unethical.  I'm not alone in that feeling.
>>
>Sorry, I'm not that good on TLAs. What's MRQ SRD?

Mongoose Runequest System Reference Document.

Basically they took the BRP system, filed off the serial numbers, and 
released it under the "Open Gaming License" for *ANYONE* to freely 
use.  Considering Chaosium owns the BRP system, I call such behavior 
unethical!

		Zane


-- 
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet)           | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Wed Aug 15 12:07:07 2007
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:07:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
In-Reply-To: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <36B24072-3663-448C-A17F-D9649DE40436@travellercentral.com>


On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Tod and Rob deserve praise for their dedication to our community.
> They got the list back up just in time.  I was actually starting to
> do some productive work this morning!


Thanks all.

Unfortunately, I am not too certain of the backups.  The DVDs look  
bad and the online backups were deleted with the system.

If anyone had any old TML posting in mbox format, please contact me  
directly.  I can use them to rebuild the archives.

Tod

From atpollard at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 12:17:59 2007
From: atpollard at yahoo.com (Arthur Pollard)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:17:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <28151355.1187199771920.JavaMail.root@web35>
Message-ID: <420651.86550.qm@web55508.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Rod Basler wrote:
> COFIT (Crotchety Old Fart In Training)

COFIT: Is this a guild/union position or merely
volunteer work?


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
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From atpollard at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 12:28:53 2007
From: atpollard at yahoo.com (Arthur Pollard)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p06240860c2e8e9e83104@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <951999.92104.qm@web55503.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
> Basically they took the BRP system, filed off the
> serial numbers, and released it under the "Open 
> Gaming License" for *ANYONE* to freely 
> use.  Considering Chaosium owns the BRP system, 
> I call such behavior unethical!


Should everyone who rolls a D6 pay royalties to 
Monopoly for using a gambling tool (dice) as a 
game aid? It stinks for Chaosium, but the courts 
have already determined that rules systems are 
not protected intellectual property. YOU could 
do the same thing and re-release the rules yet 
again.

The OGL appears to be a nod to what is already
permissible by law. Save your stones for times 
when they can do some good. This horse is dead.
:wink:

Arthur



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  

From daveshayne at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 15 12:53:40 2007
From: daveshayne at sbcglobal.net (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re:  Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> > Time and time again I see complaints that the 1st editions have 
> > numerous problems, but that the 2nd editions correct those.

That's close to an industry wide standard going all the way back to the
very first edition of D&D. If that's your only complaint regarding
their content they are well ahead of the curve.

David Shayne

PS. Thanks to the listpersons for getting us back up and running.

From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:00:01 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Trivia
In-Reply-To: <9832648.1187199142581.JavaMail.root@web35>
Message-ID: <301.33581.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- rgbasler at adelphia.net wrote:

> Enjoyed that...though doesn't the story continue
> about the axle width being determined by the space
> needed by two horses abreast, so the specifications
> of most modern forms of conveyence are ultimately
> derived from the width of the southernmost
> anatomical feature of a northbound horse?
> 
> :o)
> 
> By the way, will "Friends in High Places" be
> continuing? 

Good question. 

My current literary project is a screenplay (The
Boundary) that takes place over about nine or ten days
in 1089. It will radically alter the back story for
FIHP. 

I'm up to page 58 at the moment. I'll have more time
to work on it now that I'm unemployed.

And here's a poster I kludged together with photoshop:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72813079 at N00/307335968/


Les


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

From burocrate at excite.com  Wed Aug 15 13:06:13 2007
From: burocrate at excite.com (Louis)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:06:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
Message-ID: <20070815190613.C52D08B317@xprdmxin.myway.com>







Glenn M. Goffin wrote: 
>Tod and Rob deserve praise for their dedication to our community. >They got the list back up just in time.  I was actually starting to >do some productive work this morning!

TML DOWN
Cons - not able to relax w/ the ramblings of the TMLers

Pros - time deveted to participating in a new PBP game! 

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!



From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:09:58 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:09:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and Rob
In-Reply-To: <36B24072-3663-448C-A17F-D9649DE40436@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F22B46D8ECB3E2D50A0B727AEDE0@phx.gbl>


Thanks Tod and Rob, good hob!!

Hope someone takes a jackhammer to the
guy that did this:.(

ALan

_________________________________________________________________
Get Pimped! FREE emoticon packs from Windows Live -  
http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk


From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:14:39 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:14:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <301.33581.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>


Hi all,
    Well, I have somewhat of a quandry here,
I am down one player in my campaign (Jeff has gone
back to the States) and my game will fold unless I get
another player to fill in his spot.

My brother is considering playing (which for me would be
awesome as he is the guy who introduced me to RPG's all
those years ago, DM'ng both D and D and Traveller)

but as he has been watching the "Babylon 5" DVD's of late
(he turned me on to that too:.) he really wants to play as a Narn
(so I went out and bought the Babylon 5 RPG Narn sourcebook
specially so I could attempt to include them) and I want to let him,
but what do you guys think can I do this, is it heretical?!
does it mess too much with canon Will I need to include the Centauri too?

I think I should be able to do it, I mean, all those GURPS Traveller 4
Aliens surely werent a part of Classic Traveller canon were they?
maybe put the Narn republic way out past Zhodani space or something
Anyways, I need to integrate a Narn charaacter into an Ex Imperial Marine
tank merc unit so I guess I should copy the old Vargr Alien character
generation tables from the classic game and adapt it for the Narn
and take it from there

what do you all think?
Loren, I would love to hear your opinion on this one if you have the time:.)

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.backofmyhand.com


From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:16:46 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <657547.4386.qm@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- alan hume <threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com> wrote:


> My brother is considering playing (which for me
> would be
> awesome as he is the guy who introduced me to RPG's
> all
> those years ago, DM'ng both D and D and Traveller)
> 
> but as he has been watching the "Babylon 5" DVD's of
> late
> (he turned me on to that too:.) he really wants to
> play as a Narn
> (so I went out and bought the Babylon 5 RPG Narn
> sourcebook
> specially so I could attempt to include them) and I
> want to let him,
> but what do you guys think can I do this, is it
> heretical?!
> does it mess too much with canon Will I need to
> include the Centauri too?

Will he have a baseball bat?



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From traveller at watson-wilson.ca  Wed Aug 15 13:21:23 2007
From: traveller at watson-wilson.ca (Neil Watson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:21:23 -0400
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>
References: <301.33581.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20070815192123.GE27671@watson-wilson.ca>

BB5 races were really just humans with skewed exaggerated values.
Couldn't your brother just be a human from a former slave colony that
revolted and formed a legitimate yet somewhat paranoid government?

-- 
Neil Watson             | Debian Linux
System Administrator    | Uptime 4 days
http://watson-wilson.ca

From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Wed Aug 15 13:29:02 2007
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:29:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Travellercentral PBeMs
Message-ID: <97A48C17-4930-4422-9843-9CAB5A59CD7A@travellercentral.com>

Attention:

If you had a PBeM list hosted on TravellerCentral.com, it was lost  
when the TML went down.  I can restore the lists easily, but if you  
want to restore the archives, i will need mail in mbox format.  If  
you have preserved emails for any travellercentral list, let me know  
what mailer you are using and I will arrange to get a copy and  
convert the archives.

Digests are not useable without serious work.

From flowerpet56 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 13:35:38 2007
From: flowerpet56 at yahoo.com (JohnD)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Travellercentral PBeMs
In-Reply-To: <97A48C17-4930-4422-9843-9CAB5A59CD7A@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <862909.50374.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi Tod,

Restoring archives - can't help you there.
May have this already - can you switch me to email
-digest mode?

Thanks,  

JohnD


       
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From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:36:29 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:36:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F27CBEA01CDCC08A591A415AEDE0@phx.gbl>


>With the list mostly back up, I thought I'd spin this out there for 
>discussion, argument, and crying >or cheering.  I'm sure it's been brought 
>up before, but I missed it.
>   Yep, I'm talking about Mongoose doing some Traveller:
>
Thus hit me for six to be honest
I never knew anything about this at all
until they announced it the other day
all I can say is cooool:.)

I like Mongoose's production values, what th3yhave done
with Babylon 5 etc, and I have heard the author of the Traveller
book is really good too, so, along with T5 it is top of my shopping list
think I need to get some more overtime now though:.)

Seriously though, this could really do big things for Traveller's profile,
awesome, maybe we will finally get a movie, well, they do it for video games
and d and d got one (the second one was good too)



>From: darby eckles <darbyeckles at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: The Traveller Mailing List <tml at travellercentral.com>
>To: tml at travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
>
>With the list mostly back up, I thought I'd spin this out there for 
>discussion, argument, and crying or cheering.  I'm sure it's been brought 
>up before, but I missed it.
>   Yep, I'm talking about Mongoose doing some Traveller:
>
>   
>http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=166&PHPSESSID=71eca377e2113de8bede5426a62e57ae
>
>   Thoughts?  Comments?
>
>Darby
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! 
>TV.


>_______________________________________________
>TML mailing list
>TML at travellercentral.com
>http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml

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From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:40:06 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:40:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F236732D219EF0F0F3108F6AEDE0@phx.gbl>


Okay, so we'll see how it goes. Here's your starter:
>IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I WILL BE INVOLVED WITH MONGOOSE TRAVELLER.
>
>There. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
>

Well, I think that can only be for the good Martin,
I can't help but be optimistic about the Mongoose release
despite all the negatives, Traveller Hero sounds cool too
I think I am going to have to put it on my xmas list though
as I'm skint:.)

Alan

_________________________________________________________________
Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge  
http://www.backofmyhand.com


From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:45:18 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:45:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <002e01c7df51$9b0f1370$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F40BE82F126E63E4F3D33F0AEDE0@phx.gbl>



>*** Heh, well.  It probably won't last.
>
>Right now I'm in the middle of a book on tanks, with A History Of Land
>Warfare to do just after. Plus the threat of Mongoose-Traveller work and my
>own Translight/Far Avalon game development.
>
>Oh, and I got my Weapons Instructor/Advanced Instructorship In Self Defence
>at the weekend.
>I'm still walking funny from that one...
>


Well done!!!
nice one, I don't know how you
find enough hours in the day, honestly:.)

Translight sounds intriguing, going to have to
check out the Avenger site about that one
(another one for the xmas list I think:.)

Hope all is good with 1248 Spinward states
its a pity if that will be the last of the 1248 line
the first two books look awesome (love the cover with
the scout type ship, cool)

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From infojunky at ceecom.net  Wed Aug 15 13:46:21 2007
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:46:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] Thanks to Rob also
In-Reply-To: <46C2FA6C.6050900@vindaloo.com>
References: <46C2FA6C.6050900@vindaloo.com>
Message-ID: <EC998FC9-AED4-4FB0-9D56-3A7D873F819E@ceecom.net>


On Aug 15, 2007, at 6:06 AM, Christopher Hilton wrote:

> Thanks to Rob also.

Cool, thanks again....

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Don?t let the fans touch your assets.
				Bruce Harlick, 2007


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From tom.cusworth at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:53:08 2007
From: tom.cusworth at googlemail.com (Tom Cusworth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:53:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com>

Time to weigh in, I suppose

In my experience (as a consumer, not a creator) I've always found what
mongoose products I have bought to be of good quality. I think that, on the
whole, the content is of a decent standard and they do support their games
with supplements (let's face it, Traveller has been lacking in supplements
of late, with the exception of the Gateway stuff from QLI and the excellent
1248 books from Avenger (removes head from accidental placement in Martin's
butt!). I mean, look at the Judge Dredd RPG they published for d20, for
example. The first company to publish it, IIRC, were Games Workshop in the
80's, but they only put out half a dozen (if that) supplements/adventures
for the game.

Mongoose did how many? 12? All good in my opinion.

If the Mongoose Traveller products attract new players and re-ignite the
flame, then it's all good in my opinion.

Seriously, all that is needed is a larger fan base (let's face it, Mongoose
do have a fan base) to attract new players to our beloved game.

New players mean more players. More players mean more FTF games, which gives
me (a olde-tyme Traveller player) a much better chance of finding a gaming
group who are willing to play the game, dammit!! *Takes deep breath*

So, thank you to Avenger, QLI and Mongoose for keeping the flame alive
(whatever the respective motives or ethics may be...) Oh, and thanks too, to
the listmoms for getting the list back up again. Sterling job! I
unsubscribed myself by accident some time ago and couldn't find the TML
again (don't ask!). Now, like Martin, I find myself re-subscribed by
accident (happy accident in my case). BTW, welcome back Martin!

-Tom

Blessed are the cheapskates, for they shall see god and still have change of
a fiver - Tom Holt, Valhalla.

Want Googlemail? Ask me & I'll invite you!
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From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:54:09 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:54:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <657547.4386.qm@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F17B68E7567F8D33485DF17AEDE0@phx.gbl>

>
>Will he have a baseball bat?
>

???????????????????????????????????????
Er, I hope not
he has some cool baseball caps though:.)

_________________________________________________________________
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From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Wed Aug 15 13:54:36 2007
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:54:36 -0400
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
References: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<36B24072-3663-448C-A17F-D9649DE40436@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c7df76$1fb8acc0$9a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>

Ah, the glitch is back where I can post of outlook but not directly from my 
service provider...

Anyway, being a compulsive pack rat, I do have a chunk of TML traffic still 
drifting about in my Outlook Express.

Not sure what the easiest way would be to get them over to you, though. 
Especially since part of it is on a computer that is no longer internet 
viable. I haven't found good mass tools for Outlook Express, just doing it 
one email at a time will take a while.

I know it isn't everything, but it is something.

Garry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster at travellercentral.com>
To: "The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Good work, Tod and Rob


>
> On Aug 15, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>> Tod and Rob deserve praise for their dedication to our community.
>> They got the list back up just in time.  I was actually starting to
>> do some productive work this morning!
>
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Unfortunately, I am not too certain of the backups.  The DVDs look
> bad and the online backups were deleted with the system.
>
> If anyone had any old TML posting in mbox format, please contact me
> directly.  I can use them to rebuild the archives.
>
> Tod
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:55:59 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:55:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <20070815192123.GE27671@watson-wilson.ca>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F291F7EACB99AFBE027E577AEDE0@phx.gbl>


>BB5 races were really just humans with skewed exaggerated values.
>Couldn't your brother just be a human from a former slave colony that
>revolted and formed a legitimate yet somewhat paranoid government?
>
Hmmm, good ideas there but I honestly dont think
he would, he wants to be a Narn even more
since he discovered (in the Mongoose Sourcebook)
that Narn can vomit acidic stomach contents on people
at will:.)

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.pimpmylive.co.uk


From joshua.stockwell at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 13:57:49 2007
From: joshua.stockwell at gmail.com (Joshua Stockwell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:57:49 -0400
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F291F7EACB99AFBE027E577AEDE0@phx.gbl>
References: <20070815192123.GE27671@watson-wilson.ca>
	<BAY101-F291F7EACB99AFBE027E577AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <67c7124d0708151257x931aa65t596d65f4ac672b19@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/07, alan hume <threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hmmm, good ideas there but I honestly dont think
> he would, he wants to be a Narn even more
> since he discovered (in the Mongoose Sourcebook)
> that Narn can vomit acidic stomach contents on people
> at will:.)


Humans can do that too. :-)
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From threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 15 14:02:20 2007
From: threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com (alan hume)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:02:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <67c7124d0708151257x931aa65t596d65f4ac672b19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F2602F20EA3D9CC8ADBF673AEDE0@phx.gbl>


>Narn can vomit acidic stomach contents on people
> > at will:.)
>
>
>Humans can do that too. :-)

True, true
but I thinkt he Narn version takes your face off or somesuch:.)
will have to check the Mongoose sourcebook again

_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Hotmail is here!  http://www.newhotmail.co.uk


From traveller at watson-wilson.ca  Wed Aug 15 14:03:08 2007
From: traveller at watson-wilson.ca (Neil Watson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:03:08 -0400
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F291F7EACB99AFBE027E577AEDE0@phx.gbl>
References: <20070815192123.GE27671@watson-wilson.ca>
	<BAY101-F291F7EACB99AFBE027E577AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20070815200308.GH27671@watson-wilson.ca>

On Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 07:55:59PM +0000, alan hume wrote:
>since he discovered (in the Mongoose Sourcebook)
>that Narn can vomit acidic stomach contents on people
>at will:.)

Substitute with technology.

-- 
Neil Watson             | Debian Linux
System Administrator    | Uptime 4 days
http://watson-wilson.ca

From joshua.stockwell at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 14:10:47 2007
From: joshua.stockwell at gmail.com (Joshua Stockwell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:10:47 -0400
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F2602F20EA3D9CC8ADBF673AEDE0@phx.gbl>
References: <67c7124d0708151257x931aa65t596d65f4ac672b19@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY101-F2602F20EA3D9CC8ADBF673AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <67c7124d0708151310o421e8c3fw62c1ccd1c7931bb@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/07, alan hume <threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> True, true
> but I thinkt he Narn version takes your face off or somesuch:.)
> will have to check the Mongoose sourcebook again


I'm just busting your chops. I dont' see why you can't have Narn if you want
them. Sure it isn't canonical, but there have always been other "minor"
races in Traveller besides the "major" canonical races. The major races are
major because they have multiple settled worlds. Maybe the Traveller Narn
race only have their own home planet Narn that falls within or on the border
of one of the other spacefaring empires?
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From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Wed Aug 15 14:13:14 2007
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:13:14 -0400
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
References: <BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <004b01c7df78$bafed180$9a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>

If you're using the D20 Traveller, then mapping the D20 B5 character over 
won't be a problem.

I think the only thing you'll need is to add the Soc attribute which B5 
doesn't have (if I remember correctly)

Garry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "alan hume" <threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com>
To: <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)


>
> Hi all,
>    Well, I have somewhat of a quandry here,
> I am down one player in my campaign (Jeff has gone
> back to the States) and my game will fold unless I get
> another player to fill in his spot.
>
> My brother is considering playing (which for me would be
> awesome as he is the guy who introduced me to RPG's all
> those years ago, DM'ng both D and D and Traveller)
>
> but as he has been watching the "Babylon 5" DVD's of late
> (he turned me on to that too:.) he really wants to play as a Narn
> (so I went out and bought the Babylon 5 RPG Narn sourcebook
> specially so I could attempt to include them) and I want to let him,
> but what do you guys think can I do this, is it heretical?!
> does it mess too much with canon Will I need to include the Centauri too?
>
> I think I should be able to do it, I mean, all those GURPS Traveller 4
> Aliens surely werent a part of Classic Traveller canon were they?
> maybe put the Narn republic way out past Zhodani space or something
> Anyways, I need to integrate a Narn charaacter into an Ex Imperial Marine
> tank merc unit so I guess I should copy the old Vargr Alien character
> generation tables from the classic game and adapt it for the Narn
> and take it from there
>
> what do you all think?
> Loren, I would love to hear your opinion on this one if you have the 
> time:.)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local 
> knowledge
> http://www.backofmyhand.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 14:50:18 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:50:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com><001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<46C32288.2050506@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002701c7df7d$e483afd0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

>
> Martin, it was a sad day when you left the list!
>
> Why don't you just ignore those that bother you? I mean it, if
> an ax-grinder replies to one of your posts, and it makes you
> feel in any way angry, totally ignore them.

I have one person killfiled, another I just loudly say 'asshole' whenever he 
posts and ignore him. But overall the reason I unsubbed was that the TML was 
no use whatsoever to me, just caused aggravation. When I wasn't being 
haranged about why something I wrote a decade ago sucks I was being told 
that posting about my Traveller products was inappropriate...

... on top of which I was getting no signal through all the noise, and the 
noise was not just irritating, it was personal.

I had nothing to gain by staying, so I left.

Sorry, but I'm only able to ignore people who annoy me for so long, 
esecially when they're posting on an open list that my work sucks. I make my 
living as a writer. I do NOT need people building me a repuation as a bad 
writer. Only responding does no good either.

>
> I've been here a long, long time, don't post a lot, but I'm
> around.

I first joined about 1996. I've now left the list twice because of attacks 
by people who either offended me so much I could not ignore them (though one 
offender I've ignored on other lists for a long time) or else just would not 
leave me alone.

>There are people on the TML who have attitudes and
> opinions that bug me, get me in arguments, make me mad, but I
> have a way of dealing...I simply don't acknowledge them in any
> way. I post what I want to post, when I want to post it. But I
> refuse to argue with anyone on the list. I've even got some
> posters on my ignore list, so I don't even see their posts.
> Doing things this way keeps me happy and occasionally irks
> those I won't acknowledge...which, I must admit, also makes me
> happy.

Fair enough.

>
> IAC, welcome back to the group. Please, stay this time.

I may do. Depends on whether or not somebdy decides they just HAVE to grind 
their axe some more, and on whether the actual Traveller content of TML is 
worth staying for. Like I said, I'd be more inclined to stay in the past if 
it was worth it, but no benefit plus real aggravation isn't much of a 
reason.

>
> Now...Traveller Hero doesn't really interest me. The few times
> I dealt with Hero it seemed much to rules heavy and "fiddly"
> for my tastes.  OTOH, I'm hoping RTT (Riki Tiki Traveller -
> don't tell me it won't come to that ;)) really *does* follow
> in the path of CT and KISS with regards the rules.

I've never played HERO. The guys who are doing it are big fans though. It 
looks good, though I can't comment on the conversion from HERO to TRAVELLER 
because I've never actually played HERO.



From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 14:54:28 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:54:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <761743.16719.qm@web39706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003601c7df7e$7929bbc0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

I don't know for certain about my involvement with MongTrav; nothing is decided yet. And I don't know any secrets. 

I DID have a big one - I knew Mongoose was chasing the Traveller licence, I suspect, before Marc Miller did. This is because Mongoose approached me for information and whatever assistance I could offer when they began looking into it. Never told anyone, nor revealed any of the updates I got, so you can rest assured I won't be revealing anything that's not due for release yet. 

But I can say that right now... I know nothing except what's public.

>From conversations I've had with Mongoose I'm reasonably confident that I'll be involved somewhere...!


       Hey Martin, pesonally, I'm glad that you may be involved in what Mongoose is working on.  I'm not sure I really understand their info release on the subject, but we all know you to be an upstanding and heart-feeling Travellerite (despite the peanut gallery), and I for one would feel much more comfortable about the whole thing with you "in the loop".  Avengers products have been great, and all the above is not sycophancy, just an opinion based on having acutally used some of your work, and having my players enjoy the experience.  That last part there is the most important to me.
      I'm sure you have signed/will be signing multiple "I swear we'll cut your arms off at the knees if you tell" non-disclosure agreements, but anything you could throw out would be appreciated.

  Hey, check that out, no gnashing of teeth!

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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 14:57:28 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:57:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <BAY101-F40BE82F126E63E4F3D33F0AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <004d01c7df7e$e4b18120$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

>>
>>Oh, and I got my Weapons Instructor/Advanced Instructorship In Self 
>>Defence
>>at the weekend.
>>I'm still walking funny from that one...
>>
>
>
> Well done!!!
> nice one, I don't know how you
> find enough hours in the day, honestly:.)

I don't watch much TV. Or have a life. Pretty much everything I do is part 
of my job(s) now. I fence, I train, I work out, I teach martial 
arts/Self-Protection, I read stuff, I write about what I read and what I 
train in. Oh, and I play RPGs and write about them too. It all rolls 
together into a bundle of stuff that makes sense somehow.

>
> Translight sounds intriguing, going to have to
> check out the Avenger site about that one
> (another one for the xmas list I think:.)

We're still trundling along with that. The rules just hit version 6.1!

>
> Hope all is good with 1248 Spinward states
> its a pity if that will be the last of the 1248 line
> the first two books look awesome (love the cover with
> the scout type ship, cool)


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 14:59:11 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:59:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com><416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

In my experience (as a consumer, not a creator) I've always found what mongoose products I have bought to be of good quality. I think that, on the whole, the content is of a decent standard and they do support their games with supplements (let's face it, Traveller has been lacking in supplements of late, with the exception of the Gateway stuff from QLI and the excellent 1248 books from Avenger (removes head from accidental placement in Martin's butt!).

******** Eww. And I mean that.

 I mean, look at the Judge Dredd RPG they published for d20, for example. The first company to publish it, IIRC, were Games Workshop in the 80's, but they only put out half a dozen (if that) supplements/adventures for the game. 

******* Mongoose will support Traveller but good. They'll also get it on shelves in shops. This is also good.
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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 15:00:40 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:00:40 +0100
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
References: <BAY101-F27CBEA01CDCC08A591A415AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <006e01c7df7f$57119840$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

> Seriously though, this could really do big things for Traveller's profile,
> awesome, maybe we will finally get a movie, well, they do it for video 
> games
> and d and d got one (the second one was good too)
>

The guy who made the D&D movie still owes me money. I boycotted the movie 
for this reason. Turns out to have been a good decision for all kinds of 
reasons. 


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 15:02:32 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:02:32 +0100
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
References: <BAY101-F13C2BF30E155FDDD0877A1AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <007f01c7df7f$99826a10$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>


File the serial numbers off, and create a minor race that's very Narn-like 
but not exactly Narns. Give them a couple of twists to make them different 
but close enough that your brother is happy.

>
> Hi all,
>    Well, I have somewhat of a quandry here,
> I am down one player in my campaign (Jeff has gone
> back to the States) and my game will fold unless I get
> another player to fill in his spot.
>
> My brother is considering playing (which for me would be
> awesome as he is the guy who introduced me to RPG's all
> those years ago, DM'ng both D and D and Traveller)
>
> but as he has been watching the "Babylon 5" DVD's of late
> (he turned me on to that too:.) he really wants to play as a Narn
> (so I went out and bought the Babylon 5 RPG Narn sourcebook
> specially so I could attempt to include them) and I want to let him,
> but what do you guys think can I do this, is it heretical?!
> does it mess too much with canon Will I need to include the Centauri too?
>
> I think I should be able to do it, I mean, all those GURPS Traveller 4
> Aliens surely werent a part of Classic Traveller canon were they?
> maybe put the Narn republic way out past Zhodani space or something
> Anyways, I need to integrate a Narn charaacter into an Ex Imperial Marine
> tank merc unit so I guess I should copy the old Vargr Alien character
> generation tables from the classic game and adapt it for the Narn
> and take it from there
>
> what do you all think?
> Loren, I would love to hear your opinion on this one if you have the 
> time:.)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local 
> knowledge
> http://www.backofmyhand.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml 


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 15:05:09 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:05:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <705168.15903.qm@web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <009601c7df7f$f7192790$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

>
> Since you seem to be looking for trouble, let me help.
> :WINK:
> Is there a chance that the book that was pre-ordered
> under QLI, revised and published by Avenger, and then
> sent to those who pre-ordered at QLI, will be
> available through Mongoose as well? They have a press
> and that might set some sort of a record for the most
> publishers of the EXACT same product.
>
> Hello MJD. I'm just having some fun on your dime. No
> harm intended.


It is outside-possible that this may be doable. If it is, I'll make it 
happen. 


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 15:10:58 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:10:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Mongoose Traveller
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]><002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J><p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]>
	<01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00a701c7df80$c71e5410$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

>> At 4:31 PM +0100 8/15/07, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>>> Oh look, it's started.
>>
>> You do realize that none of my comments were targeted at you?

Yes, it was just amusing to me that your comments about Mongoose came in 
about a minute after I posted 'let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin'


>> Just because they treat the people that work for them well, that
>> doesn't mean that they conduct all of their affairs in an ethical
>> manner.  As I stated in my message, I find the whole MRQ SRD affair
>> to be unethical.  I'm not alone in that feeling.

I don't know much about it and care less (no offense intended).
I'm a professional writer. I like to be able to pay my mortgage.
Mongoose are a reliable client and those are rare in this industry.


From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 15:13:48 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:13:48 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Product
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@[192.168.1.199]><002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J><p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@[192.168.1.199]><01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
	<00a701c7df80$c71e5410$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <00c001c7df81$2c9f96a0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

BTW: We (Avenger) recently published a Traveller novel by Terry McInness.

http://www.comstar-games.com/csg-store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_16

From tom.cusworth at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 15 15:15:53 2007
From: tom.cusworth at googlemail.com (Tom Cusworth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:15:53 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com>
	<006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <4b5cc71a0708151415m5c23f33cg264ddbb0e2af163f@mail.gmail.com>

On 15/08/07, MJ Dougherty <martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net> wrote:

>
> ******** Eww. And I mean that.
>
>


Yeah, really sorry about that... Not a pleasant thaought at all. I just felt
that the comment about how good the 1248 stuff is (in my opinion) sounded
somewhat sycophantic. No offense was meant, Martin. Sorry for any that was
caused.



>
> ******* Mongoose will support Traveller but good. They'll also get it on
> shelves in shops. This is also good.
>

I wholeheartedly agree. This is the point I was making in my rather
long-winded way. Any support for the game that raises its profile is great.
I mean, Traveller was, at one time, THE sci-fi RPG, second in sales and
players only to D&D. every second or third advert in a game magazine was for
the game or a supplement of the game. I'd like to see that again. Mongoose
have the resources to do that.

-Tom

_______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>
>


-- 
Blessed are the cheapskates, for they shall see god and still have change of
a fiver - Tom Holt, Valhalla.

Want Googlemail? Ask me & I'll invite you!
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From tom.cusworth at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 15 15:25:09 2007
From: tom.cusworth at googlemail.com (Tom Cusworth)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Product
In-Reply-To: <00c001c7df81$2c9f96a0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@192.168.1.199>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@192.168.1.199>
	<01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
	<00a701c7df80$c71e5410$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<00c001c7df81$2c9f96a0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <4b5cc71a0708151425w1e2e52bcn17bba15c367ce498@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for that. I have bought the ebooks Eye of Glory, Yesterday's Hero and
A Long Way From Home. I haven't read them yet, for a couple of reasons,
which I will list here:

1. I'm working my way through the Honor Harrington novels for the first time
(thanks to the TML). I'm currently on "A Short Victorious War" (Please don't
spoil them!!).

2. I hate reading books on my laptop. As they are PDF, this leaves me in a
dilemma. I would read them if there was a half-decent PDF viewer for the
PSP, but none of the ones I've tried work... So, here's an open question to
the list.

Does anyone know if there's a service in the UK where you can get ebooks
printed and bound (nothing too fancy, mind) for a half-decent price? I know
there are a few chains in the US that do it, but I think the postage would
be prohibitive.

-Thanks

Tom


On 15/08/07, MJ Dougherty <martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net> wrote:
>
> BTW: We (Avenger) recently published a Traveller novel by Terry McInness.
>
>
> http://www.comstar-games.com/csg-store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_16
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>



-- 
Blessed are the cheapskates, for they shall see god and still have change of
a fiver - Tom Holt, Valhalla.

Want Googlemail? Ask me & I'll invite you!
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From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Wed Aug 15 15:43:13 2007
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:43:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Travellercentral PBeMs
In-Reply-To: <862909.50374.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <862909.50374.qm@web55706.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5911448D-8EB4-4E5A-9450-8941E0C440CC@travellercentral.com>


On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:35 PM, JohnD wrote:

> Hi Tod,
>
> Restoring archives - can't help you there.
> May have this already - can you switch me to email
> -digest mode?
>
> Thanks,
>
> JohnD
Done

Tod

From jzeitlin at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 15 16:13:06 2007
From: jzeitlin at spamcop.net (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:13:06 -0400
Subject: [TML] Trivia
In-Reply-To: <301.33581.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <9832648.1187199142581.JavaMail.root@web35>
	<301.33581.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <j5u6c3d5jgm4r1pe6ml4lf6tpg007kdc83@4ax.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT), Leslie Bates
<lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com> wrote:

>--- rgbasler at adelphia.net wrote:
 
>> By the way, will "Friends in High Places" be
>> continuing? 

>Good question. 

>My current literary project is a screenplay (The
>Boundary) that takes place over about nine or ten days
>in 1089. It will radically alter the back story for
>FIHP. 

And if that requires you to re-write part of it, I'm willing to either
replace what's there with the rewrite, or post it as a new story so that
people can read either version.  Your choice.

And if the screenplay doesn't turn out to be salable (and I hope it DOES
turn out to be salable, and SOLD, and that we actually see "The
Boundary" in cinemas or on TV), I'm willing to post THAT to Freelance
Traveller, as well.

>I'm up to page 58 at the moment. I'll have more time
>to work on it now that I'm unemployed.

Unemployment sucks.  Sorry to hear that you're experiencing such
suckage.

>And here's a poster I kludged together with photoshop:

>http://www.flickr.com/photos/72813079 at N00/307335968/

Ooo, I like this.  And I wouldn't be heartbroken if you chose to 'shop
up a cover for FIHP.

From shadow at shadowgard.com  Wed Aug 15 16:16:18 2007
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:16:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Travellercentral PBeMs
In-Reply-To: <97A48C17-4930-4422-9843-9CAB5A59CD7A@travellercentral.com>
References: <97A48C17-4930-4422-9843-9CAB5A59CD7A@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <46C318C2.8447.3C734CC@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 15 Aug 2007 at 13:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> If you had a PBeM list hosted on TravellerCentral.com, it was lost  
> when the TML went down.  I can restore the lists easily, but if you  
> want to restore the archives, i will need mail in mbox format.  If  
> you have preserved emails for any travellercentral list, let me know  
> what mailer you are using and I will arrange to get a copy and  
> convert the archives.

I've got *some* posts saved in Pegasus Mail folders. I also have the 
old HIWG 2 CD set that had list archives going from the early 2000s 
to the beginning. Alas, most of those are in digest format.

I think I can export the stuff in PM to an mbox type file. Since you 
are local, I can deliver stuff physically (CD, DVD, Jaz, Zip, even 
floppy). Or I can stick it up on a server for you to grab.

ps. the CD archives contain two messages infected with a virus. 
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From infojunky at ceecom.net  Wed Aug 15 16:16:25 2007
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:16:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com><416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com>
	<006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <5F9E7879-B3F1-41E3-81AB-162F1A4EFFD7@ceecom.net>


On Aug 15, 2007, at 1:59 PM, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> In my experience (as a consumer, not a creator) I've always found  
> what mongoose products I have bought to be of good quality. I think  
> that, on the whole, the content is of a decent standard and they do  
> support their games with supplements (let's face it, Traveller has  
> been lacking in supplements of late, with the exception of the  
> Gateway stuff from QLI and the excellent 1248 books from Avenger

So does Mongoose's news have any major effect on Avenger?

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Then somewhere near Salinas, Lord, I let her slip away,
Lookin' for the home I hope she'll find.
And I'd trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterday,
			Me & Bobby Mcgee,
				Kris Kristofferson



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From shadow at shadowgard.com  Wed Aug 15 16:21:22 2007
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:21:22 -0700
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
In-Reply-To: <001a01c7df76$1fb8acc0$9a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
References: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<001a01c7df76$1fb8acc0$9a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
Message-ID: <46C319F2.2695.3CBD917@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 15 Aug 2007 at 15:54, Garry Ward wrote:

> Ah, the glitch is back where I can post of outlook but not directly from my 
> service provider...
> 
> Anyway, being a compulsive pack rat, I do have a chunk of TML traffic still 
> drifting about in my Outlook Express.
> 
> Not sure what the easiest way would be to get them over to you, though. 
> Especially since part of it is on a computer that is no longer internet 
> viable. I haven't found good mass tools for Outlook Express, just doing it 
> one email at a time will take a while.

There are ways to convert entire mailboxes. I was trying to help a 
friend move stuff from one computer to another (and switching mailers 
in the process). It's doable, just annoying.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From jzeitlin at spamcop.net  Wed Aug 15 16:25:44 2007
From: jzeitlin at spamcop.net (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 18:25:44 -0400
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
In-Reply-To: <46C32288.2050506@bellsouth.net>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<46C32288.2050506@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <dpu6c3dqc72gtpj3l7q8vt78qtiveqdh2s@4ax.com>

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:58:00 -0500, Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>Martin, it was a sad day when you left the list!
>
>Why don't you just ignore those that bother you? I mean it, if 
>an ax-grinder replies to one of your posts, and it makes you 
>feel in any way angry, totally ignore them.
>
>I've been here a long, long time, don't post a lot, but I'm 
>around. There are people on the TML who have attitudes and 
>opinions that bug me, get me in arguments, make me mad, but I 
>have a way of dealing...I simply don't acknowledge them in any 
>way. I post what I want to post, when I want to post it. But I 
>refuse to argue with anyone on the list. I've even got some 
>posters on my ignore list, so I don't even see their posts. 
>Doing things this way keeps me happy and occasionally irks 
>those I won't acknowledge...which, I must admit, also makes me 
>happy.
>
>IAC, welcome back to the group. Please, stay this time.

Seconded, emphatically.

>Now...Traveller Hero doesn't really interest me. The few times 
>I dealt with Hero it seemed much to rules heavy and "fiddly" 
>for my tastes.  OTOH, I'm hoping RTT (Riki Tiki Traveller - 
>don't tell me it won't come to that ;)) really *does* follow 
>in the path of CT and KISS with regards the rules.

I've never seen the HERO system rules, but from talking to Kevin, I get
the impression that the Traveller setting is being eagerly looked
forward to by the StarHERO fanbase.  Anything that increases the amount
of Travellery goodness in the world is going to get my vote - even with
my misgivings about DeeTwunny, I still felt that TeeTwunny was better
than no tea at all.

And would you get out of my head, please?  When Kevin mentioned it to me
in IRC, my first thought was 'Rikki Tikki Travvy'.  And my second was
the cutline: "Running and Finding Out in the Far Future".

From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 16:35:58 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:35:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com><416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com><006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<4b5cc71a0708151415m5c23f33cg264ddbb0e2af163f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00d101c7df8c$a707a4e0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>


  Yeah, really sorry about that... Not a pleasant thaought at all. I just felt that the comment about how good the 1248 stuff is (in my opinion) sounded somewhat sycophantic. No offense was meant, Martin. Sorry for any that was caused. 

  *** Heh, none taken. but Ewww all he same.



    ******* Mongoose will support Traveller but good. They'll also get it on shelves in shops. This is also good.

  I wholeheartedly agree. This is the point I was making in my rather long-winded way. Any support for the game that raises its profile is great. I mean, Traveller was, at one time, THE sci-fi RPG, second in sales and players only to D&D. every second or third advert in a game magazine was for the game or a supplement of the game. I'd like to see that again. Mongoose have the resources to do that. 

  ***** I hope it'll happen. It has a good chance.
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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 16:37:56 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:37:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Product
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@192.168.1.199><002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J><p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@192.168.1.199><01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com><00a701c7df80$c71e5410$0e411f56@DF8Y032J><00c001c7df81$2c9f96a0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<4b5cc71a0708151425w1e2e52bcn17bba15c367ce498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ef01c7df8c$ed453620$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

Thanks for that. I have bought the ebooks Eye of Glory, Yesterday's Hero and A Long Way From Home. I haven't read them yet, for a couple of reasons, which I will list here:

  1. I'm working my way through the Honor Harrington novels for the first time (thanks to the TML). I'm currently on "A Short Victorious War" (Please don't spoil them!!).

  2. I hate reading books on my laptop. As they are PDF, this leaves me in a dilemma. I would read them if there was a half-decent PDF viewer for the PSP, but none of the ones I've tried work... So, here's an open question to the list. 

  Does anyone know if there's a service in the UK where you can get ebooks printed and bound (nothing too fancy, mind) for a half-decent price? I know there are a few chains in the US that do it, but I think the postage would be prohibitive. 

  *** I recently was sent a copy of Eye of Glory printed using Lulu, which looks good.
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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 16:40:10 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:40:10 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com><416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com><006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<5F9E7879-B3F1-41E3-81AB-162F1A4EFFD7@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <010c01c7df8d$3d774d40$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>




  So does Mongoose's news have any major effect on Avenger?

  ****** Yes. Our license, like the others, will not be renewed when it expires. Mongoose will have their own licensing in place so we may well get one through them. Or we may be writing Traveller for them. Or something.
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From martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net  Wed Aug 15 16:42:07 2007
From: martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:42:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Hero
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.1.20070815095318.0195a4e0@gte.net>	<67c7124d0708150802n6f63905ayef5f08722ffb386@mail.gmail.com><001901c7df50$8eb51bc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J><46C32288.2050506@bellsouth.net>
	<dpu6c3dqc72gtpj3l7q8vt78qtiveqdh2s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011701c7df8d$83093530$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>

> And would you get out of my head, please?  When Kevin mentioned it to me
> in IRC, my first thought was 'Rikki Tikki Travvy'.  And my second was
> the cutline: "Running and Finding Out in the Far Future".

I went with MongTrav. 

Yes, it was me that coined that one. 

From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 16:51:30 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Trivia
In-Reply-To: <j5u6c3d5jgm4r1pe6ml4lf6tpg007kdc83@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <521377.29169.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin at spamcop.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:00:01 -0700 (PDT), Leslie
> Bates
> <lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >--- rgbasler at adelphia.net wrote:
>  
> >> By the way, will "Friends in High Places" be
> >> continuing? 
> 
> >Good question. 
> 
> >My current literary project is a screenplay (The
> >Boundary) that takes place over about nine or ten
> days
> >in 1089. It will radically alter the back story for
> >FIHP. 
> 
> And if that requires you to re-write part of it, I'm
> willing to either
> replace what's there with the rewrite, or post it as
> a new story so that
> people can read either version.  Your choice.

I'd go with both.
 
> And if the screenplay doesn't turn out to be salable
> (and I hope it DOES
> turn out to be salable, and SOLD, and that we
> actually see "The
> Boundary" in cinemas or on TV), I'm willing to post
> THAT to Freelance
> Traveller, as well.

As long as there is a copyright notice I would mind if
you posted it before it sold.

> >And here's a poster I kludged together with
> photoshop:
> 
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/72813079 at N00/307335968/
> 
> Ooo, I like this.  And I wouldn't be heartbroken if
> you chose to 'shop
> up a cover for FIHP.

Need to find my original pair of reading glasses, some
ass stole my last pair...



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC

From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 15 16:53:23 2007
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:53:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Trivia
In-Reply-To: <521377.29169.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <171066.29169.qm@web33514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Leslie Bates <lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com> wrote:


> As long as there is a copyright notice I would mind
> if
> you posted it before it sold.

PIMF!!!!

I wouldn't mind! 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  

From shadow at shadowgard.com  Wed Aug 15 17:15:54 2007
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:15:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Traveller Product
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c7df8c$ed453620$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<00ef01c7df8c$ed453620$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
Message-ID: <46C326BA.2864.3FDFCA9@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 15 Aug 2007 at 23:37, MJ Dougherty wrote:

> Thanks for that. I have bought the ebooks Eye of Glory, Yesterday's 
> Hero and A Long Way From Home. I haven't read them yet, for a couple 
> of reasons, which I will list here: 
>     
>     1. I'm working my way through the Honor Harrington novels for the 
>     first time (thanks to the TML). I'm currently on "A Short Victorious 
>     War" (Please don't spoil them!!). 
>     
>     2. I hate reading books on my laptop. As they are PDF, this leaves me 
>     in a dilemma. I would read them if there was a half-decent PDF viewer 
>     for the PSP, but none of the ones I've tried work... So, here's an 
>     open question to the list. 

Can it handle html? Or LIT? Or Mobipocket format for Palm systems? Or 
even RTF? The Honor Harrington books are available in all of those 
formats.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From dave.shillito at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 17:20:48 2007
From: dave.shillito at gmail.com (DAve Shillito)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:20:48 +0100
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <67c7124d0708151310o421e8c3fw62c1ccd1c7931bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67c7124d0708151257x931aa65t596d65f4ac672b19@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY101-F2602F20EA3D9CC8ADBF673AEDE0@phx.gbl>
	<67c7124d0708151310o421e8c3fw62c1ccd1c7931bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7c2152230708151620j78ea9722h1d1ca5b5efa53876@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/07, Joshua Stockwell <joshua.stockwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/15/07, alan hume <threeeyesmcgurk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > True, true
> > but I thinkt he Narn version takes your face off or somesuch:.)
> > will have to check the Mongoose sourcebook again
>
>
> I'm just busting your chops. I dont' see why you can't have Narn if you want
> them. Sure it isn't canonical, but there have always been other "minor"
> races in Traveller besides the "major" canonical races. The major races are
> major because they have multiple settled worlds. Maybe the Traveller Narn
> race only have their own home planet Narn that falls within or on the border
> of one of the other spacefaring empires?

<pedant mode>
Just to be 'correct' - In canon a major race is one that developed
jump drive independently.
Minor races could have an empire using technology they obtained from elsewhere.
</pedant mode>

IIRC this actually fits with the B5 universe quite well - as Narn
obtained their space technology from the Centari.

So pick a border with a human empire (the major race) and create a
"Narn'ish" minor race they could have subjugated, who rebelled and
created their own empire (probably less than a subsectors worth), and
you have the basics.

If the major race were the Solomani's maybe the "Narnies" allied with
the Imp marines in a border dispute.

Now... ensure one of the other players is a Solie and watch the fun start ;)

DAve

From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Wed Aug 15 17:36:54 2007
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:36:54 -0400
Subject: [TML] Good work, Tod and  Rob
References: <348956.49279.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,
	<001a01c7df76$1fb8acc0$9a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<46C319F2.2695.3CBD917@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c7df95$2d422820$1c374b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <shadow at shadowgard.com>
To: "The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Good work, Tod and Rob


> On 15 Aug 2007 at 15:54, Garry Ward wrote:
>
>> Ah, the glitch is back where I can post of outlook but not directly from 
>> my
>> service provider...
>>
>> Anyway, being a compulsive pack rat, I do have a chunk of TML traffic 
>> still
>> drifting about in my Outlook Express.
>>
>> Not sure what the easiest way would be to get them over to you, though.
>> Especially since part of it is on a computer that is no longer internet
>> viable. I haven't found good mass tools for Outlook Express, just doing 
>> it
>> one email at a time will take a while.
>
> There are ways to convert entire mailboxes. I was trying to help a
> friend move stuff from one computer to another (and switching mailers
> in the process). It's doable, just annoying.
>
Any clue as to where I could uncover said ways?

The mechanism I have at hand today is to open each email, do a Save As into 
a disk folder and repeat until my eyes water and then come back to repeat in 
a couple of days.

Garry
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From matphasriscova at internode.on.net  Wed Aug 15 17:40:50 2007
From: matphasriscova at internode.on.net (Cyberia)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:40:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Narn in Traveller (was Trivia)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F17B68E7567F8D33485DF17AEDE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F17B68E7567F8D33485DF17AEDE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46C38F02.5050407@internode.on.net>

alan hume wrote:
>> Will he have a baseball bat?
>>
>>     
>
> ???????????????????????????????????????
> Er, I hope not
> he has some cool baseball caps though:.)
>
>   

<wheet!>
tramptramptrampTrampTrampTRAMPTRAMPTRAMP.....

WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!WHAM!

Thus exiteth the Narn Bat Squad.

From su_liam at clearwire.net  Wed Aug 15 17:47:11 2007
From: su_liam at clearwire.net (Colin Paddock)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:47:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] Well done to all concerned...
In-Reply-To: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
References: <memo.920598@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CBF77CCA-1F30-4DD7-BD0B-6744ACEB596F@clearwire.net>

Except the monkey's tit that caused this...

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------------------------
	Colin Paddock
su_liam-at-clearwire-dot-net

	We must remember that impulsively lashing out is never the best  
course of action. True justice can only be achieved through cool,  
calm, levelheaded armageddon.

Larry Tempel, The Onion, 26 September 2001


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From joshua.stockwell at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 18:14:23 2007
From: joshua.stockwell at gmail.com (Joshua Stockwell)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:14:23 -0400
Subject: [TML] Traveller Product
In-Reply-To: <4b5cc71a0708151425w1e2e52bcn17bba15c367ce498@mail.gmail.com>
References: <94178.15727.qm@web39713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06240859c2e8c54c9c46@192.168.1.199>
	<002901c7df51$4f71edc0$76411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<p0624085dc2e8d6edbe03@192.168.1.199>
	<01DD2592-9CF0-4270-A934-B79ECC2FE801@yahoo.com>
	<00a701c7df80$c71e5410$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<00c001c7df81$2c9f96a0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<4b5cc71a0708151425w1e2e52bcn17bba15c367ce498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67c7124d0708151714s27570798id3e7195ea5d1016c@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/15/07, Tom Cusworth <tom.cusworth at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 1. I'm working my way through the Honor Harrington novels for the first
> time (thanks to the TML). I'm currently on "A Short Victorious War" (Please
> don't spoil them!!).
>
>

Those books are great. Just about every space battle had me sitting on the
edge of my chair as I read them. I am about to begin "War of Honor," the
tenth book in the series, myself.
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From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Aug 15 18:17:29 2007
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:17:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Fwd: Re: Mongoose Traveller
In-Reply-To: <4b5cc71a0708151415m5c23f33cg264ddbb0e2af163f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <322615.4745.qm@web82403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<416443.8016.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4b5cc71a0708151253n48bc031dv6f7d51508f5a2ae7@mail.gmail.com>
	<006201c7df7f$21f714f0$0e411f56@DF8Y032J>
	<4b5cc71a0708151415m5c23f33cg264ddbb0e2af163f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240862c2e93c8717c2@[192.168.1.199]>

At 10:15 PM +0100 8/15/07, Tom Cusworth wrote:
>On 15/08/07, MJ Dougherty 
><<mailto:martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net>martin-j.dougherty at virgin.net> 
>wrote:
>******* Mongoose will support Traveller but good. They'll also get 
>it