[TML] Molding Ships

[Charles Prevatte]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
> shadow at shadowgard.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:06 PM
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] Molding Ships
>
>
> On 2 Oct 2007 at 16:35, Charles Prevatte wrote:
>
> > Sorry, you missed the point.  I was mainly talking about what a
> very small
> > group of "space men" and their ship could have done reasonably in that
> > situation.  Even a very few spy or comunications sats would
> have taken more
> > tech than could be cobbled together from one small space ship.  While
> > upgradeing a factory, or even several, to produce year 2000+ engines for
> > helecopters would have been trivial.  Boot straping the
> electronics era in
> > the WW1 era would have been nearly imposible due to the ammount of
> > supporting technologies that would have to also be boot
> strapped.  But high
> > grade light engines for choppers and/or aircraft is mostly limited by
> > tollerences in the machine processes available at that time.
> The best use
> > of the available computing power would be to improve a factory
> to produce a
> > product that could tip the balence of the war.  By your own
> statement above
> > you yourself say as much.  But satalites are not simple easy to produce
> > things, and they take a lot more than just improved machining.  The same
> > would apply to SAMs, to much electronics to boot strap.  You
> could manage a
> > LAWs rocket factory, an engine factory for helecopters, Jets,
> or better prop
> > engines.  And Gatling guns would be very easy if you already
> had the plans
> > on file.
>
> Actually, if the spaceship can still fly (say it's the jump drive
> that failed) Satellites will be well within the capability of the
> locals. It's *launching* that's the biggest headache.
>
> For that matter, the better machining *would* allow stuff like ICBMs
> and orbital spacecraft from WWII tech.
>

In time, but not quickly, and perhaps not fast enough.  If the ships can fly
you are correct that satlites would be easier, but not with only tube
technology.  Power problems would kill you, an no solar cells at that time
period.  There would be a vast host of problems putting up a usable spy sat
or com sat without a previous body of work (and technictions) to build on.

> > Boot strapping the micro electronics industry would take
> advances in 100s of
> > support technologies.  It would take longer than the war would last.
>
> Actually, there are several tricks that will improve things a lot.
> Composition resistors to replace the wire wound ones that were in use
> in the early 30s is an *easy* change. But it'd make a *huge*
> difference.
>
> So would digital designs (even if tube based) rather than analog.
> There are a lot of things that are really hard to do with analog
> design, but easy to do with digital.
>

and vice vesa.  Digital has a lot of problem with precision analog output
without a lot of processing power.  (Again, what I do for a living.
Industrial controls design.  Robotics.)

> And given design help, I expect that micro-"tube" designs like TIMMs
> would be doable. Basically a large, heated "brick" with *tube*
> circuits using dime sized tubes and everything arranged tightly in a
> dense, 3D package.
>

It's been tried.  The inverse square law kills you very fast, with the
termal gradiant.  Also, you are talking about a serious scaling problem and
strutural strength limitations.  Univac was what you are trying to build.
It worked, but it was not at all portable, and took a huge investment in
manpower to program an maintain.

> > A simpler solution would be to use the ships systems to build a
> very small
> > number of A-bombs, to remove key targets.  Even one such weapon
> could tip
> > the balence.  Think of how things might have turned out if the attack on
> > Perl Habor had been made with a high megaton nuke, particularly
> a dirty one
> > that would have denighed the US the use of Perl and it's
> facilaties for the
> > rest of the War.
>
> Building an A-bomb is easy. Getting the fissionables *isn't*. And the
> ship's systems will be essentially useless for that.
>

Depends on the ships design and power supply.  If it uses a nuclear pile and
has a fuel processing plant (see lower Traveller tech designs) then no, it
would be a trivial thing.  (See some of the early traveller avdentures for
nuckelear technologies uses and listed)

> A dirty nuke wouldn't have much area denial potential. *Especially*
> with WWII sensibilities about "safety".
>
> Get some volunteers to bulldoze dirt over the worst spots. hose off
> the rest, and worry about *maybe* getting cancer later.
>

Ionizing radiation and steel hulled ships!  Your crews would be dead in a
day.  Every naval ships would be a radioactive death trap for decades in not
centuries.  Trinity site is still to dangerious to visit unprotected.

> If the ship is flayable, just drop big rocks on them from orbit.
>

If there are rock near by, and IF the ships can move them, and if the ships
is flyable enough to try.

Again outside the scope of my original idea.

> A reactor is easier to build. And you can take a page out of
> Henlein's "Solution: Unsatisfactory" and create dirty bombs using
> various isotopes.
>

Missed that one, good call.

> And it may well be that weapons grade lasers are buildable with local
> tech (depends on how Traveller lasers work). Even if only ground
> based and ship mounted ones are the best you can do, they pretty much
> make air attacks (and a lot of surface attacks) impossible.
>

True.

> A weapons emplacement that can kill anything mobile at line-of-sight
> ranges is going to be a great defense.
>

Yep, see the "Sky-raider" traveler adventure.  WW1 with blimp combat.  Your
group was there for diplomacy and have to make a run for the ships while the
local "nazis" are invading.  Very good adventure, particularly if you ad lib
a little and work on the player contiouses a bit.  (Make sure you let them
see some jack booted thugs and war crimes on the way to the ship.)  One time
I did this turn into a campain.  Gunning from space to the resitence with a
corp backing the bad guys for mineral rights.  Can you say "play it again
Sam" (Grin!)  On player caught on and could do a pretty good "Boggie".  Used
ever spy and WW2 movie I ever saw to adventure material.  Was a lot of fun.
Try were "were eagles dare" with an air raft, laser carbines, grav-belts,
and a pretty enemy mole as your local guide.

Charles L.
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