From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 00:38:24 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:38:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <47A14A91.31851.127E1357@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 1/31/08 7:12 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:

> On 29 Jan 2008 at 17:35, Leon Wu wrote:
> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
>>> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tom Naro
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:33 PM
>>> To: The Traveller Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
>>> 
>>> John Kwon jtkwon at jtkgroup.com wrote:
>>>> How to handle flying space rocks (asteroids) in Traveller, using
>>>> science postulated by US TV shows.  See?  not as dangerous
>>> as you once believed...
>>> 
>>> Laughed - until I fell off of my chair!
>> 
>> I think John forgot this one (though to be fair it came from a movie):
>> 
>> Send up a bunch of plucky miners to drill into the asteroid and nuke it
>> from within all to the dulcet tones of Aerosmith.
> 
> And the pieces follow the same orbit more or less. Doesn't really
> help all that much.
> 
> Only workable solutions involve interceptimng *years* before impact
> so you can alter the orbit into a miss.

Starting a month out, a 1 m/s shove gives you almost 2600 km.  Obviously,
longer lead-time give better results with less delta-V needed, but I don't
think you need years.  Depends on your tech, of course.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 00:38:27 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:38:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <47A14ADA.10277.127F3B4C@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <C3C836A4.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 1/31/08 7:13 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:

> On 29 Jan 2008 at 22:02, Jerry W Barrington wrote:
> 
>> On 1/29/08 3:03 PM, "John Kwon" <jtkwon at jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> * It's just barely possible to evacuate Kansas City to a distance of 100
>>> miles in 48 hours. This requires lots of airplanes. It also requires
>>> martial law, so that 'looters will be arrested on sight'. (Have they no
>>> mercy?) With 30+ hours to go, people will panic in the streets and run
>>> around at random.
>> 
>> Umm...  if the asteroid is going to hit KC, there won't be any property to
>> come back and recover.  Leaving the looters to have fun chlorinates the gene
>> pool.  :P
> 
> I often think that we *need* an asteroid strike on Earth.  One that
> misses anyplace important, but is somewhere where the TV cameras can
> get there quickly to show the destruction.
> 
> It'll take something like that to drive home the idea that it really
> *is* a danger. 

Probably true.  Problem is, people are hardwired to think in terms of
immediate effects.  It takes an effort to think to next year.  For most
people, next century is irrelevant.  After all, they'll already be dead
anyway, so it's not their problem.  This is why politicians do so many
stupid things.  Easier to spend $1,000,000 now in my election district
(which helps me get re-elected) than spend it on some project with no
visible result (which helps me leave politics).


From darvedd at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 00:46:05 2008
From: darvedd at gmail.com (Michael Jenkins)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:46:05 +0900
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Regalia
In-Reply-To: <f495db580801312219q4882f043w74555caf629cfb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490801311057l5ead4863gda373f51fd8e51e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580801311103s385b692brb77a139cd93e7c15@mail.gmail.com>
	<889263490801311106k4c75c84cue9b92a947aca8505@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580801312219q4882f043w74555caf629cfb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1832b5750801312346n636ce382m12b9bd3e341fab59@mail.gmail.com>

On 01/02/2008, Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2008 8:06 PM, Brad Murray <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 31, 2008 11:03 AM, Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I really liked the basic ideas of this one.
> > > Douglas E Knapp
> >
> > Thanks -- I think it's a potential scenario-driver myself, so I like
> > it too.  It does smack a little of the Douglas Adams "B Ark" but I can
> > live with that.  :D
>
> I thought I had read all of his stuff but I don't remember B Ark. What is that?

Captain: There was a reason the B Ark was sent ahead of the others,
but I can't quite remember what it was ...

Arthur Dent: [shouts] You're a mob of useless bloody loonies!!!!!

Captain: [brightly] Ah yes, that was it!

Now, back to my D'Jinn'n'Onyx ...

-- 
Regards,
Michael Jenkins
--
You cannot deny the humanity of another human being
Without also denying humanity in yourself
--

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 00:58:54 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:58:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] World's most power rail gun delivered to Navy
In-Reply-To: <846783C0-DABC-4D36-8F1A-47401B780616@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <C3C83B6E.123CE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 1/31/08 3:08 PM, "Bruce Johnson" <johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> On Jan 31, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
>> As a weapon delivery system, why get complicated. Put your
>> deadfall ordinance in orbit and just drop on your enemy's
>> head. I'm sure you all recall Pournelle's idea about the
>> "crowbars from out of the skies."
> 
> Well, actually I recall Heinlein's "grain carriers full of rocks from
> out of the skies" bit Jerry stole it from :-P

Yeah, but those barges would cause one hell of a lot more damage than a
shower of crowbars.  Much more precise instruments there.  :)


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 01:00:55 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:00:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] World's most power rail gun delivered to Navy
In-Reply-To: <47A1477F.3445.12721516@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <C3C83BE7.123CE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 1/31/08 6:58 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:

> On 29 Jan 2008 at 17:19, Jerry W Barrington wrote:
> 
>> On 1/29/08 2:39 PM, "John Kwon" <jtkwon at jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Using a 2GW commercial nuclear reactor as a power source, we're going to
>>> cause a continuous shower of high density bowling balls to rain down at
>>> intercontinental distances - up to 48 hours at a time.  Let's say 5 balls
>>> per second.
>> 
>> I'm trying to visualize the loading mechanism that feeds 5 bowling balls per
>> second!  For that matter, the storage area adjacent to the launcher for
>> nearly 1 million bowling balls...  (48 hours * 5 balls/sec)
> 
> Gonna be expensive too.
> 
> I tried looking up tungsten prices, but they are $250 or more per
> MTU. And I'm having no luck finding out what an MTU *is*

I found this on a page (old from the looks):
<http://www.nnsl.com/ops/tungsten.html>
*****
The average annual price of tungsten since 1950 has fluctuated between a low
of US $10 per tonne in 1963 and a peak of $175 in 1977. Prices have risen
dramatically in recent years, mostly because China and Russia have run out
of the stockpiles they've been 'dumping' for years.

The current U.S. spot market price for tungsten is $55 US per metric tonne
unit. North American has not disclosed the price for its product.
*****

>From Michael's explanation of MTU as 10kg, that's expensive!


From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 08:10:21 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 07:10:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
Message-ID: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>

[BJM: a short one today -- there's only so much you can do with all
those zeroes ]

Texaco

0309 D200000-0
Gas Giants present

What can you say about Texaco? It's an airless, waterless, metal-free
rock with an old automated refinery and a yeast farm that may or may
not have gone over. No one lives there and anyone who happens to be
manning the station isn't there officially. Texaco is a popular
refueling point for jump-2 vessels heading to or from Kraleer space
but other than that it's a dead system.

Aspects
Supposed to be empty

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 09:25:57 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:25:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <47A14A91.31851.127E1357@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <889263490802010825i2adc2cd7uc51e1e5eda8dd11e@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 31, 2008 11:38 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 1/31/08 7:12 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> Starting a month out, a 1 m/s shove gives you almost 2600 km.  Obviously,
> longer lead-time give better results with less delta-V needed, but I don't
> think you need years.  Depends on your tech, of course.

I think the point is that with a couple of years you can do it
trivially -- you can send out a package with just enough fuel to get
there, match orbit, and station keep, pack it with amusing scientific
instruments and maybe some ballast, and use its mass to deflect the
asteroid gravitationally.

You even get a bunch of observations for free out of the deal.

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 09:49:55 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:49:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580802010849y36259280x7b2ad3b10788ec4@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 4:10 PM, Brad Murray <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:
> [BJM: a short one today -- there's only so much you can do with all
> those zeroes ]
>
> Texaco
>
> 0309 D200000-0
> Gas Giants present
>
> What can you say about Texaco? It's an airless, waterless, metal-free
> rock with an old automated refinery and a yeast farm that may or may
> not have gone over. No one lives there and anyone who happens to be
> manning the station isn't there officially. Texaco is a popular
> refueling point for jump-2 vessels heading to or from Kraleer space
> but other than that it's a dead system.
>
> Aspects
> Supposed to be empty
>
> --
> Brad Murray (halfjack)

This reminds me. What happens when you get a gas giant in the life
zone? It could make for some fun aliens, perhaps.
Douglas  E Knapp

From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 11:00:02 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:00:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <f495db580802010849y36259280x7b2ad3b10788ec4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580802010849y36259280x7b2ad3b10788ec4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <889263490802011000s130eba79g8d9008dfbe3ae399@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 8:49 AM, Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
> This reminds me. What happens when you get a gas giant in the life
> zone? It could make for some fun aliens, perhaps.

I'm using Book 2 CT world generation so gas giant location isn't
specified.  If I put a gas giant in the life zone (as with AWAD:
Pander, which will be posted later this month) then the habitable
world there will be a moon of the gas giant.  I'm not sure that being
in the right energy zone for habitable life actually improves a gas
giant's viability much -- the issues of pressure, gravity, radiation,
and heat from all the above seems too hard to overcome.  I think there
has been some clever speculation about life in the upper atmosphere
though, but it might actually be more viable further out from the
habitable zone to balance energy from the sun with energy from the
giant.

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From sablemage at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb  1 11:07:21 2008
From: sablemage at yahoo.co.uk (Andy Slack)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:07:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Regalia
In-Reply-To: <f495db580801312219q4882f043w74555caf629cfb6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490801311057l5ead4863gda373f51fd8e51e7@mail.gmail.com>	<f495db580801311103s385b692brb77a139cd93e7c15@mail.gmail.com>	<889263490801311106k4c75c84cue9b92a947aca8505@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580801312219q4882f043w74555caf629cfb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c864fd$4a8a72f0$df9f58d0$@co.uk>

> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com [mailto:tml-
> bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Knapp
> Sent: 01 February 2008 06:20
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] AWAD: Regalia
> I thought I had read all of his stuff but I don't remember B Ark. What is
> that?

The crew and passengers of the "B Ark" were told that their world was about
to be destroyed, and that the population would be evacuated in three Arks:
A, B and C. The A Ark was to carry productive workers, the C Ark supervisors
and managerial types, and the B Ark those such as marketing staff, telephone
sanitisers, hairdressers and so on.

Actually, the planet only sent the B Ark, the rest of them staying home to
enjoy an improved standard of living "having rid themselves of an entire
useless third of their population". Until they were all wiped out by a
disease contracted from a dirty telephone.

We now return you to your scheduled programming...

Andy


From magick.crow at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 11:30:54 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:30:54 +0100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Regalia
In-Reply-To: <000b01c864fd$4a8a72f0$df9f58d0$@co.uk>
References: <889263490801311057l5ead4863gda373f51fd8e51e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580801311103s385b692brb77a139cd93e7c15@mail.gmail.com>
	<889263490801311106k4c75c84cue9b92a947aca8505@mail.gmail.com>
	<f495db580801312219q4882f043w74555caf629cfb6@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01c864fd$4a8a72f0$df9f58d0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <f495db580802011030p322cb9e8m615ce97d45161ca3@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 7:07 PM, Andy Slack <sablemage at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com [mailto:tml-
> > bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Knapp
> > Sent: 01 February 2008 06:20
> > To: The Traveller Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [TML] AWAD: Regalia
> > I thought I had read all of his stuff but I don't remember B Ark. What is
> > that?
>
> The crew and passengers of the "B Ark" were told that their world was about
> to be destroyed, and that the population would be evacuated in three Arks:
> A, B and C. The A Ark was to carry productive workers, the C Ark supervisors
> and managerial types, and the B Ark those such as marketing staff, telephone
> sanitisers, hairdressers and so on.
>
> Actually, the planet only sent the B Ark, the rest of them staying home to
> enjoy an improved standard of living "having rid themselves of an entire
> useless third of their population". Until they were all wiped out by a
> disease contracted from a dirty telephone.
>
> We now return you to your scheduled programming...
>
> Andy
>
Ah, yes, now I remember.
Douglas E Knapp

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 13:34:05 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:34:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <889263490802010825i2adc2cd7uc51e1e5eda8dd11e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 11:25 AM, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 31, 2008 11:38 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 1/31/08 7:12 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
>> Starting a month out, a 1 m/s shove gives you almost 2600 km.  Obviously,
>> longer lead-time give better results with less delta-V needed, but I don't
>> think you need years.  Depends on your tech, of course.
> 
> I think the point is that with a couple of years you can do it
> trivially -- you can send out a package with just enough fuel to get
> there, match orbit, and station keep, pack it with amusing scientific
> instruments and maybe some ballast, and use its mass to deflect the
> asteroid gravitationally.
> 
> You even get a bunch of observations for free out of the deal.

Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?


From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 13:44:28 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:44:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and the death
Message-ID: <630631.16699.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com>

>Andy, you get paid for what you did. How many of them can
>say they are getting paid for what they did?

Heh.  I can think of a few ...

--Glenn


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 13:52:48 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:52:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
Message-ID: <496996.25616.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: "Garry Ward" <garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net>

>Ah, a 'lego' approach; building with removable parts to
>reflect things getting blown off...

It's a good idea.  Lego itself isn't useful because too
much effort is required to change its appearance from
smooth and glossy to something suitable for a game table,
but I like the approach.  Maybe Lego could make some
realistic, grown-up toys ... I'll contact the company.

--Glenn


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 13:58:10 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:58:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <889263490802010825i2adc2cd7uc51e1e5eda8dd11e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 12:34 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?

20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
impossible.  You need to carry a bunch of fuel anyway.  With a year or
two's lead time you don't need all that big a vector to miss an earth
sized object.

Not my idea, of course:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR2005110902204.html

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 14:10:05 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:10:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] World's most power rail gun
Message-ID: <656007.45944.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: "John Kwon" <jtkwon at jtkgroup.com>

>I think that's what they mean by rule of men, not laws. 
>The threat of annihilation by an Imperial Fleet is a real
>threat if it is given.

And they have to execute it occasionally, so that people
will remember, say, Ilelish.

--Glenn



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Fri Feb  1 14:26:31 2008
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
References: <496996.25616.qm@web45515.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000701c86519$20f257c0$4a2f4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <glenn.goffin at yahoo.com>
To: "aa TML" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive


> >From: "Garry Ward" <garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net>
>
>>Ah, a 'lego' approach; building with removable parts to
>>reflect things getting blown off...
>
> It's a good idea.  Lego itself isn't useful because too
> much effort is required to change its appearance from
> smooth and glossy to something suitable for a game table,
> but I like the approach.  Maybe Lego could make some
> realistic, grown-up toys ... I'll contact the company.

Dang it, should have patented or copyrighted or whatever....

Now they'll have a whole new line of income and I won't get a cent...

Garry
>
> --Glenn
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From shadow at shadowgard.com  Fri Feb  1 14:27:23 2008
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:27:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <47A14A91.31851.127E1357@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47A31E3B.18461.19A7EFE8@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 1 Feb 2008 at 2:38, Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> On 1/31/08 7:12 AM, "shadow at shadowgard.com" <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 29 Jan 2008 at 17:35, Leon Wu wrote:
> > 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
> >>> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tom Naro
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:33 PM
> >>> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
> >>> 
> >>> John Kwon jtkwon at jtkgroup.com wrote:
> >>>> How to handle flying space rocks (asteroids) in Traveller, using
> >>>> science postulated by US TV shows.  See?  not as dangerous
> >>> as you once believed...
> >>> 
> >>> Laughed - until I fell off of my chair!
> >> 
> >> I think John forgot this one (though to be fair it came from a movie):
> >> 
> >> Send up a bunch of plucky miners to drill into the asteroid and nuke it
> >> from within all to the dulcet tones of Aerosmith.
> > 
> > And the pieces follow the same orbit more or less. Doesn't really
> > help all that much.
> > 
> > Only workable solutions involve interceptimng *years* before impact
> > so you can alter the orbit into a miss.
> 
> Starting a month out, a 1 m/s shove gives you almost 2600 km.  Obviously,
> longer lead-time give better results with less delta-V needed, but I don't
> think you need years.  Depends on your tech, of course.

You want a miss by a lot more than 2600 km.

Also giving a body big enough to worry about 1 m/s of delta-v isn't 
something we can pull ooff with current tech.

For that matter, it'd take us years to build something that *could* 
intercept it "a month out". Much less do so while carrying something 
that would give the required delta-v.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From josephnjody at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb  1 14:41:53 2008
From: josephnjody at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Paul)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:41:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PBELIEMAEKFJADHMKFLLMENOGGAA.josephnjody@sbcglobal.net>


 >
 >Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?

Deleted punny thought!
Joseph Paul
 

From ajackson at iii.com  Fri Feb  1 15:00:44 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <47A31E3B.18461.19A7EFE8@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <47A14A91.31851.127E1357@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<C3C836A0.123C6%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<47A31E3B.18461.19A7EFE8@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <47A3968C.5000804@iii.com>

shadow at shadowgard.com wrote:

> 
> You want a miss by a lot more than 2600 km.

Yeah, you kind of want a 2.5 m/s shove.
> 
> Also giving a body big enough to worry about 1 m/s of delta-v isn't 
> something we can pull ooff with current tech.

Yeah it is. Surface ablation with nuclear weapons will do the trick. For 
that matter, drilling a hole in it and blowing it up will cause most of 
the fragments to miss Earth, as long as you do it a while out. If you 
take a 1 kilometer rock with a mass of 2 gigatons and detonate a 100 
kiloton nuke in it, that works out to an energy of 210 kilojoules per 
kilogram. If 1% of that energy gets turned into kinetic energy of the 
fragments, the average expansion velocity perpendicular to its impact 
path is 53 m/s, and if you make sure to detonate the weapon a bit off 
center, you'll also get an off center expansion, which should cut the 
mass down even more. You'll still get a few megatons of incoming rock, 
which isn't helpful, but you can probably create a donut hole in the 
rock cloud with an additional nuke or two, and chunks below a certain 
size aren't a threat anyway.
> 
> For that matter, it'd take us years to build something that *could* 
> intercept it "a month out". Much less do so while carrying something 
> that would give the required delta-v.

Now this is certainly true.

From tim at little-possums.net  Fri Feb  1 16:39:01 2008
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:39:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010825i2adc2cd7uc51e1e5eda8dd11e@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080201233901.GH17664@soprano.little-possums.net>

On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 12:58:10PM -0800, Brad Murray wrote:
> 20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
> impossible.

That wouldn't be enough.  They used as an example Apophis, meaning the
spacecraft can't get closer to the center than about 200 m.  That
means the gravitational acceleration of the asteroid toward the craft
about 3*10^-11 m/s^2.  The article said one year of thrust 10-20 years
before impact.  One year of thrust provides a velocity of approximately
0.001 m/s.  20 years of drift with that speed gives 700 km deflection.

Not enough by an order of magnitude.  A 200-tonne craft might do it,
but not with any margin of safety.  Hovering for 10 years instead of 1
could also do it - and would be more feasible than sending a craft 10
times larger.


- Tim

From sablemage at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb  1 11:00:37 2008
From: sablemage at yahoo.co.uk (Andy Slack)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:00:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] World's most power rail gun delivered to Navy
In-Reply-To: <846783C0-DABC-4D36-8F1A-47401B780616@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <479FA247.2070308@berghold.net>	<C3C5112A.12319%jursamaj@yahoo.com>	<f495db580801291427t262eebc2sae6490338ea21284@mail.gmail.com>	<20080130010843.GC31780@soprano.little-possums.net>	<47A2261F.3050100@bellsouth.net>
	<846783C0-DABC-4D36-8F1A-47401B780616@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000a01c864fc$59f16e70$0dd44b50$@co.uk>

> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com [mailto:tml-
> bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 31 January 2008 20:08
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] World's most power rail gun delivered to Navy
> Well, actually I recall Heinlein's "grain carriers full of rocks from
> out of the skies" bit Jerry stole it from :-P

That would be "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", yes? Cracking AI in it as well
IIRC, as well as an intriguing society developing from the penal colony.

Andy


From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 19:51:41 2008
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Spofulam Ancestor?
Message-ID: <517312.77161.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8399791&postcount=2806


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

From erisred at bellsouth.net  Fri Feb  1 19:55:50 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:55:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010825i2adc2cd7uc51e1e5eda8dd11e@mail.gmail.com>	<C3C8EC6D.123DE%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A3DBB6.9050708@bellsouth.net>

Brad Murray wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2008 12:34 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?
> 
> 20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
> impossible.  You need to carry a bunch of fuel anyway.  With a year or
> two's lead time you don't need all that big a vector to miss an earth
> sized object.

I think using a mass driver powered by solar panels and chunks 
of the rock itself to change its course would be than trying 
to carry fuel with you.

Eris

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 22:31:38 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:31:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <889263490802011258u44a6594t57a6f7acc960bee1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3C96A6A.123F4%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 3:58 PM, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 1, 2008 12:34 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?
> 
> 20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
> impossible.  You need to carry a bunch of fuel anyway.  With a year or
> two's lead time you don't need all that big a vector to miss an earth
> sized object.
> 
> Not my idea, of course:
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR200511090220
> 4.html

The theory works great.  But I'm not sure about a 20 ton weight exerting
1/40,000th of a G.  And it's hover thrusters would need to be directed away
from the asteroid, or they would impact it and at least partially counter
the pull.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 22:38:59 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <20080201233901.GH17664@soprano.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <C3C96C23.123F9%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 6:39 PM, "Timothy Little" <tim at little-possums.net> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 12:58:10PM -0800, Brad Murray wrote:
>> 20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
>> impossible.
> 
> That wouldn't be enough.  They used as an example Apophis, meaning the
> spacecraft can't get closer to the center than about 200 m.  That
> means the gravitational acceleration of the asteroid toward the craft
> about 3*10^-11 m/s^2.  The article said one year of thrust 10-20 years
> before impact.  One year of thrust provides a velocity of approximately
> 0.001 m/s.  20 years of drift with that speed gives 700 km deflection.

In that particular case, all they want to do is miss a 2000ft keyhole in
space.  A few 100 km works fine for that.  For the larger case of missing
the Earth itself, yeah, that's probably not enough (unless it was only
barely going to hit).

> Not enough by an order of magnitude.  A 200-tonne craft might do it,
> but not with any margin of safety.  Hovering for 10 years instead of 1
> could also do it - and would be more feasible than sending a craft 10
> times larger.

Or keep sending small 1-year craft over and over.  :)


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 22:39:04 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Solution to the near-c rock question
In-Reply-To: <47A3DBB6.9050708@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <C3C96C28.123F9%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 9:55 PM, "Eris Reddoch" <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Brad Murray wrote:
>> On Feb 1, 2008 12:34 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Err... gravitationally?  How big a package you sending?
>> 
>> 20 tons or so.  Big for a scientific package but not logistically
>> impossible.  You need to carry a bunch of fuel anyway.  With a year or
>> two's lead time you don't need all that big a vector to miss an earth
>> sized object.
> 
> I think using a mass driver powered by solar panels and chunks
> of the rock itself to change its course would be than trying
> to carry fuel with you.

If the asteroid is spinning (and most do), that complicates it.  The hover
method doesn't care if it spins.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 22:41:26 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:41:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spofulam Ancestor?
In-Reply-To: <517312.77161.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C3C96CB6.123FB%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 9:51 PM, "Leslie Bates" <lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com> wrote:

> http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=8399791&postcount=2806

Nice.  Of course, if it had the round in it, she probably couldn't hold it
so easily.  :)

But I think it's good for them to get exposed to such things young.  Learn
respect instead of fear.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 23:22:03 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:22:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <889263490802011000s130eba79g8d9008dfbe3ae399@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3C9763B.12404%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/1/08 1:00 PM, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 1, 2008 8:49 AM, Knapp <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This reminds me. What happens when you get a gas giant in the life
>> zone? It could make for some fun aliens, perhaps.
> 
> I'm using Book 2 CT world generation so gas giant location isn't
> specified.  If I put a gas giant in the life zone (as with AWAD:
> Pander, which will be posted later this month) then the habitable
> world there will be a moon of the gas giant.  I'm not sure that being
> in the right energy zone for habitable life actually improves a gas
> giant's viability much -- the issues of pressure, gravity, radiation,
> and heat from all the above seems too hard to overcome.  I think there
> has been some clever speculation about life in the upper atmosphere
> though, but it might actually be more viable further out from the
> habitable zone to balance energy from the sun with energy from the
> giant.

I'm of the school of thought that anything that tried to evolve would
quickly fall to lower parts of the atmosphere and be destroyed.  Thus, I
don't put native life *in* gas giants.

On the moons though is a great place, if the moon is large enough.  It's
even possible to have multiple habitable moons.  Imagine discovering radio,
and hearing alien TV shows!


From johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu  Sat Feb  2 09:07:29 2008
From: johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 09:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <348320B7-DD16-47F9-81FF-4D6EDE4C284F@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:10 AM, Brad Murray wrote:

> [BJM: a short one today -- there's only so much you can do with all
> those zeroes ]
>
> Texaco
>
> 0309 D200000-0
> Gas Giants present
>
> What can you say about Texaco? It's an airless, waterless, metal-free
> rock with an old automated refinery and a yeast farm that may or may
> not have gone over. No one lives there and anyone who happens to be
> manning the station isn't there officially. Texaco is a popular
> refueling point for jump-2 vessels heading to or from Kraleer space
> but other than that it's a dead system.

Oh, goody! a Doom wad for Traveller :-)

Great place to send unsuspecting PC's on a salvage mission to recover  
machinery from the abandoned refinery, which proceeds normally until  
something disables their ship.

Then an NPC vanishes. Then another. Then they find half of the second  
one, with a blood trail leading off into the refinery...

Standard 'Aliens' stuff, but if you strand the PC's there without the  
usual battalion-sized arsenal PC's like to travel with, it doesn't  
matter how many monster movies the players have seen...they're in a  
serious fight for survival...

A good place to place 'The Chamax Horde' too...

--
Bruce Johnson
U of Az  College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs


From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 12:45:55 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:45:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
Message-ID: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>

[BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]

Sprechenhaltestelle

0501 C58AAA7-C
Gas Giants present

Sprechenhaltestelle is what every great world should be: powerful,
independent, and generous. It has become a diplomatic center for
communication between Vilani, Solomani, and Vargr and has mediated
between subsets of those larger cultures. Currently it is most famous
for housing the government-in-exile of the Davidian Concord, though it
is not clear that that particular committee will ever again be
relevant.

The world proper is a small (about 50% standard gravity) water world
with a dense but very breathable atmosphere. The substantial
population (tens of billions of people) are well distributed amongst
thousands of structures built in the shallows of the world and rising
to great altitudes. Any given habitable space might be anywhere from
hundreds of meters underwater to thousands of meters in the air and
the architecture is fantastic mixture of sparkling domes amidst the
waves studded with vast tapering spires that pierce the clouds. Travel
is mostly by air in private grav vehicles manages by an automated air
traffic control system.

The government of Sprechenhaltestelle is run by one man ? Fafnir Braat
? a Solomani rogue with a past marked by piracy, imprisonment,
extensive psychological treatment, rebellion, riches, poverty, contact
with aliens, military command, and underworld connections. He is a
huge bearded brute of a man, quick to laughter and with a speaking
voice that quiets entire cities when his addresses are made public.
Most of the population would die at his command. The Imperium has
never managed to established any kind of hold here and there is no
interest in the Pax Imperium ? Sprechenhaltestellians (Sprechers for
short) believe that their destiny is only upward to greater and great
levels of technology. They intend to rival the Ancients and even go
beyond.

Certainly the system has the resources to make their dream plausible.
It is rich with heavy metals, pure water ice, and gas giants full of
exotics. Consequently the system is riddled with industrial and
agricultural stations and perhaps half or more of the total population
lives in space plying some trade there.

Despite its enormous population and unconventional leadership,
Sprechenhaltestelle is only moderately constraining for the private
citizens ? knives and swords are commonplace in cities and, though
firearms are strictly illegal, obtaining a license to carry one is not
terribly onerous. The police force is small for the population and
crime is low partly because of a tendency to decriminalise anything
they cannot reasonably stop.

Sprechenhaltestelle is a popular setting for Vilani and Solomani
entertainment holos, especially ones dealing with interstellar
intrigue thanks to the reputation for subsector-spanning affiliations.
Indeed, embassies for every major government in the sector are present
here, some representing governments that no longer even exist. Not all
of the intrigue, as it turns out, is fictional and the preference of
the population for loose loudly coloured clothing, amusing hats, and
swords at their side make for great television, whether fact or
fiction.

Sprechenhaltestelle has allowed no official Imperial presence other
than diplomatic ? no ISS base exists in system and certainly no naval
base is present. Sprechenehaltestelle herself maintains a substantial
system defense navy and tolerates the presencee of several private
fleets, most of whom would happily go to war at the request of the
local government. Even the small Vargr corsair fleets that regularly
pass through the system conduct themselves with aplomb and any piracy
that occurs does so with an apology and a tip of the hat.

With he popular support of nearly everyone who comes into contact with
it, Sprechenhaltestelle is largely immune to external interests. It
remains to be seen, however, just how this grand experiment will play
out.

Aspects
Diplomatic hub
Fiercely independent from man to world
When Fafnir speaks the world pauses

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From kellys at efn.org  Sat Feb  2 16:06:23 2008
From: kellys at efn.org (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080202150439.01b729b0@pop.efn.org>

At 11:45 AM 2/2/2008, Brad Murray wrote:
>[BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]

38 in a month and a half, yup. :)

Never actually played the module, though I did glance at the maps.  The 
name stuck in my mind, though...


--------------
Kelly St.Clair     Official sponsor of the Galactic Frungy League
kellys at efn.org             "FRUNGY:  The Sport of KINGS!"


From rob.davenport at adelphia.net  Sat Feb  2 16:30:33 2008
From: rob.davenport at adelphia.net (Rob Davenport)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 18:30:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A4B6C9.7767.45E28B7@rob.davenport.adelphia.net>

On 2 Feb 2008 at 11:45, Brad Murray wrote:

> [BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]
> 
> Sprechenhaltestelle

Ah yes, Top Secret - one my favorite RPGs growing up.  It's sitting 
on my shelf here right now.   My brother used that module but tweaked 
it a bit as I recall.

And yes, I'm that old...



Rob

-- 
Rob Davenport 

Don't think of it as a flame - it's more like an argument that does 
3D fire damage





From traveller at dhimaging.com.au  Sat Feb  2 16:53:08 2008
From: traveller at dhimaging.com.au (traveller at dhimaging.com.au)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 10:53:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <47A4B6C9.7767.45E28B7@rob.davenport.adelphia.net>
References: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A4B6C9.7767.45E28B7@rob.davenport.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <005601c865f6$c5269760$4f73c620$@com.au>



-----Original Message-----
From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
[mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob Davenport
Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2008 10:31 AM
To: Brad Murray; The Traveller Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle

On 2 Feb 2008 at 11:45, Brad Murray wrote:

> [BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]
> 
> Sprechenhaltestelle

Ah yes, Top Secret - one my favorite RPGs growing up.  It's sitting 
on my shelf here right now.   My brother used that module but tweaked 
it a bit as I recall.

And yes, I'm that old...



Rob

===============================================
[joel]

I like the way Top Secret handles languages and skills, and enjoyed the
percentile dice.



From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 22:13:41 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:13:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080202150439.01b729b0@pop.efn.org>
Message-ID: <C3CAB7B5.1241A%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/2/08 6:06 PM, "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys at efn.org> wrote:

> At 11:45 AM 2/2/2008, Brad Murray wrote:
>> [BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]
> 
> 38 in a month and a half, yup. :)
> 
> Never actually played the module, though I did glance at the maps.  The
> name stuck in my mind, though...

I was like that: recognized the name but had to look it up.  Never actually
played TS, but it's in storage.  :)  Wonder if I could get a pretty penny
for it...

(For the record, 42 as of the 17th just past.)


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  2 22:40:04 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:40:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] New power source?
Message-ID: <C3CABDE4.1241B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

<http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-11-13>

Imagine writing *this* one up for FS&S v3...


From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 01:38:54 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:38:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
Message-ID: <889263490802030038o6005077dic13aa9c1055f093d@mail.gmail.com>

Interzone

0506 E254888-4
Gas Giants present

Interzone is, unexpectedly, one of the oldest Solomani colonies in the
Maelstrom subsector. Its bright and perfect G3 star must have looked
very attractive from dozens of light years away and all of the
astronomical technology would certainly have pointed to the presence
of a living world in the bio zone. The story is that Interzone's
original colony wasn't even established by a jump-capable technology
but rather that s sub light generation ship made the voyage so very
long ago. Whether or not any of that is true is certainly debatable
and there's not much academic interest in resolving it. It is old,
however, and regardless of whether or not it was once established with
starfaring technology, there's none of that on Interzone now.

Interzone is well placed ? it's right in the middle of the subsector
and it's close to the two major trade routes in the region. It
neigbours the Concord worlds and Imperial outposts. It could be more
than it is, but sadly Interzone really has nothing to offer that can't
be had cheaper or in greater volume elsewhere. If they already sported
at least a spacefaring technology there might be a way to establish
trade in exotics or other minerals. If they had a decent starport
there might be some trade in tourism. If someone were to find that
mythical sublight colony ship there might be a swarm of academic
interest. But there is none of that on Interzone.

Interzone is small ? at only about 3000km in diameter its gravity is
barely 10% of a standard G. Nonetheless there is a thin and breathable
atmosphere her ? something the populace has had to grow used to as
there is not sufficient technology to do anything but breathe it as it
is. There's not a lot of free standing water ? perhaps 40% of the
planet's tiny surface ? but it supports some life and the weather is
moderate in all regards. Interzone is, physically, and adequate place
to live. One wouldn't necessarily choose to stay but no would one
necessarily choose to leave.

The population, unable to emigrate with local technology and unexposed
to external traffic of any density, has grown to several hundred
million souls. They are organized in a kind of massive bureaucracy ?
everything that happens on Interzone happens with a filled out form, a
wax seal, a signature in real ink, and a handshake from a real person
to boot. The law is similarly constraining ? even bladed weapons are
frowned upon and open display of any weapon is unacceptable. Only the
police forces travel with visible armament and even in that case the
weapons are simply truncheons.

Not that there's much to ban ? Interzone's industry has atrophied to
the point where manufacturing basic chemical firearms is the pinnacle
of the craft. You might be able to buy a good revolver, but odds are
it's a one of a kind, hand crafted by a master metalsmith and suited
to a single type of ammunition made only by his brother. What power
exists is predominantly steam driven ? the technology exists for more
efficient internal combustion systems but there is no local source of
petrochemicals so these experiments are based largely on alcohol and
other bio fuels.

The populace is not stupid or ignorant, mind you. There isn't a
religious association with starfarers, for example ? the people are
well aware that there is a burgeoning culture of technology and travel
out there somewhere ? and they are quick enough to take advantage of
anyone that happens by.

Aspects
Just good enough to fail
Ancient roots

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 01:59:38 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 00:59:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
Message-ID: <467614.15927.qm@web45513.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: Tom Naro <tomnaro at yahoo.com>

>Breaches are marked with black masking tape on both sides
>of a wall.  It's not perfect - but it is very quick in
>game.

Thats sounds like a really good idea; I'll try it. 

>Of course, I use the cotton balls to show smoke (and
>imply fire).

I hit them with a little black spray paint to make black
smoke.  It works pretty well, but you need a very light
hand on the spray can.

--Glenn



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 02:03:52 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
Message-ID: <516309.28869.qm@web45503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: "Andy Slack" <sablemage at yahoo.co.uk>

>Glenn, I'm sure I've seen some of those on the web. IIRC
>they are card buildings which you assemble yourself, with
>a "destroyed" version that is covered by a sleeve. So 
>they look normal until blown up, when you slide
> off the outer layer to reveal a ruin beneath. I think
>they were 15mm too, for WWII gamers.
>
>I'll see if I can dig out a link for you.

Clever!  I'd love to check them out.

--Glenn


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 02:08:17 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:08:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
Message-ID: <980196.13947.qm@web45516.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: "Andy Slack" <sablemage at yahoo.co.uk>

>Glenn, take a look at:

http://www.paperterrain.com/

Andy,

Thanks!  Those are very cool.  Now if they'd just do a
science-fiction 25mm line!

--Glenn




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From glenn.goffin at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 02:13:49 2008
From: glenn.goffin at yahoo.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 01:13:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] 20mm
Message-ID: <178294.26269.qm@web45511.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster at travellercentral.com>
[deletion]
>20mm have made something of a comeback as anti-material
>rifles, with a few being fielded.  
[deletion]
>Even larger calibers like the Barrett 25mm 'Payload
>rifle' exist, but these use reduced charge rounds to keep
>recoil manageable

Who remembers the Light Assault Gun from Book 4? Striker
may have had it, too.  Anyway, if you're wearing battle
dress, it's relatively easy to use.

--Glenn



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From magick.crow at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 10:46:44 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:46:44 +0100
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
Message-ID: <f495db580802030946k3e57afcau9d0a6b0c0fb2aa4e@mail.gmail.com>

This makes the length of year for a planet; based on WG.pgf, page 15, 2.1.1
"where a is the orbital distance in AU and m is the mass of the
primary, in solar masses. If the planet has significant mass compared
to the
star (like a large superjovian and a small red star or brown dwarf),
add the masses together. Result is in Earth standard years."

My question for all you space experts is what is meant by
"Significant" here? I am now using, significant is when the the mass
of the super is divided by the mass of the star and it is over 60%
I am thinking that this changes the year because the barycenter is no
longer in the center of the planet. Is that right? Also how would this
effect other planets with them?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
Douglas E Knapp


-- 
Ein Leben ohne Mops ist m?glich,
doch v?llig sinnlos.
-Loriot

From johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu  Sun Feb  3 11:05:38 2008
From: johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:05:38 -0700
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1642DB4-A058-4804-967F-927E353A63DC@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


On Feb 2, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Brad Murray wrote:

> The world proper is a small (about 50% standard gravity) water world
> with a dense but very breathable atmosphere.

Uhhh, that's pretty self-contradictory, there. I doubt a world with  
0.5 G is going to have a dense ATM, at least naturally.

--
Bruce Johnson

"No matter where you go, there you are", B. Banzai


From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 11:09:59 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 10:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <C1642DB4-A058-4804-967F-927E353A63DC@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <889263490802021145m3e9147and54938cd83725be6@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1642DB4-A058-4804-967F-927E353A63DC@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <889263490802031009n593a8440n2607e8a35e465836@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 10:05 AM, Bruce Johnson <johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:
> Uhhh, that's pretty self-contradictory, there. I doubt a world with
> 0.5 G is going to have a dense ATM, at least naturally.

Vast outgassing from undersea volcanoes.
An automated atmosphere manager that's stuck on 11.
Enormous gas generation from the local aquaculture (hurble burble).
A terrible Ancient secret lurks in the depths.

CT is discover, not invent.  Take the ball and run -- that's where the
adventures are.

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Sun Feb  3 12:20:26 2008
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 14:20:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
References: <f495db580802030946k3e57afcau9d0a6b0c0fb2aa4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c86699$e2bfcff0$8e2c4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com>
To: "The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian


>This makes the length of year for a planet; based on WG.pgf, page 15, 2.1.1
>"where a is the orbital distance in AU and m is the mass of the
>primary, in solar masses. If the planet has significant mass compared
>to the
>star (like a large superjovian and a small red star or brown dwarf),
>add the masses together. Result is in Earth standard years."

>My question for all you space experts is what is meant by
>"Significant" here? I am now using, significant is when the the mass
>of the super is divided by the mass of the star and it is over 60%
>I am thinking that this changes the year because the barycenter is no
>longer in the center of the planet. Is that right? Also how would this
>effect other planets with them?

>Thoughts anyone?
Don't know about barycenters, but as the masses go up, the gravitational 
pull goes up which means that you need to go faster sideways the balance the 
speed towards so it takes less time to cover the circumfernence at a given 
orbital radius.

As I understand the forumla for orbital period, SQRT(distance in au^3 
divided by the sum of the masses in solar masses). If the mass of the 
orbiting object is small, it can be ignored. Or, simply convert it into 
solar masses and add them any way. After all, if the orbiting object is only 
.00001 solar masses, it really won't affect the final number that much.

If it is .6, then it will.

1^3 / 1 = 1 year
1^3/1.0001 = .9999499 or an hour or so less than a year.
1^3/1.1 =  .95 year or about 9 days less.
1^3/1.01 = .99550371 or about 2 days less than a year.
1^3/1.001 = .9995003 or abount 4 hours less than a year.

By and large, I'd say just add the masses anyway.

Garry




>Thanks,
>Douglas E Knapp


-- 
Ein Leben ohne Mops ist m?glich,
doch v?llig sinnlos.
-Loriot
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML at travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml



From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 13:20:27 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:20:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <C1642DB4-A058-4804-967F-927E353A63DC@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <C3CB8C3B.12432%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/3/08 1:05 PM, "Bruce Johnson" <johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> 
> On Feb 2, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Brad Murray wrote:
> 
>> The world proper is a small (about 50% standard gravity) water world
>> with a dense but very breathable atmosphere.
> 
> Uhhh, that's pretty self-contradictory, there. I doubt a world with
> 0.5 G is going to have a dense ATM, at least naturally.

Actually, it's not at all.  Compare Earth & Venus.  Almost the same size,
yet Venus's atmosphere is much denser.  *And* it's hotter, meaning light
stuff escapes easier.

Gravity + temperature determine the lightest molecule that will be retained
long-term, not how much of what's kept starts out there.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 13:31:31 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <000a01c86699$e2bfcff0$8e2c4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
Message-ID: <C3CB8ED3.12434%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/3/08 2:20 PM, "Garry Ward" <garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> 1^3 / 1 = 1 year
> 1^3/1.1 =  .95 year or about 9 days less.
> 1^3/1.01 = .99550371 or about 2 days less than a year.
> 1^3/1.001 = .9995003 or abount 4 hours less than a year.
> 1^3/1.0001 = .9999499 or an hour or so less than a year.
> 
> By and large, I'd say just add the masses anyway.

Likewise, I'd just add them all, but I'm a stickler for accuracy.
Especially if you're still looking at this for a computer program, why not?

If you don't want to worry about little ones, note the the 1000:1 ratio
means that ignoring the secondary's mass leave the result accurate to 3
significant digits (.999 vs. 1).  Same for other ratios, same accuracy as
the number of zeroes in the ratio (100:1 -> .99 vs. 1, etc)


From editor at freelancetraveller.com  Sun Feb  3 13:39:36 2008
From: editor at freelancetraveller.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:39:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Freelance Traveller Forums Nearly Ready For Re-Launch! Your
	Input Is Requested!
Message-ID: <ha7cq3l88cbp0o8qi9ofehs20hd5iis9of@4ax.com>

We've found an arrangement that looks like it will suit for the
immediate future - basically, the big problem with the previous
arrangement was that it was too susceptible to 'dirty' power. We've
addressed that problem (though we're still susceptible to outright power
failures that last longer than a small number of minutes), and have
reconstructed the system that the forums are resident on.

However, we've done some thinking, and want your input into how we
should structure the forums: 

 - What discussion areas should we have (or not!)?
 - What should our web interface look like (or not!)?
 - What features should we have (or not!) that will encourage you to
   come and participate?

We'd like this to be a DISCUSSION, rather than just you sending us
messages, so, while we'll gladly take email responses sent to
newsadmin at freelancetraveller.com, we'd really like to see people stop in
to #traveller on Undernet IRC or #lonestar on OtherWorlders IRC - the
two channels are still bridged, so if you're in one, you can "hear"
what's going on in the other - and talk to us.  Look for "FreeTrav"; he
should be there from about 1730-2000 Eastern Time every night this week
(Monday-Friday), and will very likely be available for at least part of
the period 0700-1500 Eastern Time those same days.

Feel free to pass this message on to other Traveller-related
communities! We've posted to the TML and TML-Chat.

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 14:02:40 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 22:02:40 +0100
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <C3CB8ED3.12434%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <000a01c86699$e2bfcff0$8e2c4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<C3CB8ED3.12434%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580802031302y100fec5ge07bc10fcd31ff7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 9:31 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2/3/08 2:20 PM, "Garry Ward" <garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > 1^3 / 1 = 1 year
> > 1^3/1.1 =  .95 year or about 9 days less.
> > 1^3/1.01 = .99550371 or about 2 days less than a year.
> > 1^3/1.001 = .9995003 or abount 4 hours less than a year.
> > 1^3/1.0001 = .9999499 or an hour or so less than a year.
> >
> > By and large, I'd say just add the masses anyway.
>
> Likewise, I'd just add them all, but I'm a stickler for accuracy.
> Especially if you're still looking at this for a computer program, why not?
>
> If you don't want to worry about little ones, note the the 1000:1 ratio
> means that ignoring the secondary's mass leave the result accurate to 3
> significant digits (.999 vs. 1).  Same for other ratios, same accuracy as
> the number of zeroes in the ratio (100:1 -> .99 vs. 1, etc)
>
>
Nice explanations all. Thanks, adding it is!
Douglas  E Knapp

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 16:02:06 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:02:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 10:10 AM, Brad Murray <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:
> No one lives there and anyone who happens to be
> manning the station isn't there officially.

I know the CT rules literally say "0-No inhabitants," but the next
step up is "1-Tens of inhabitants."  So I always took the "0" level to
actually mean "Less than ten inhabitants."  Most of the time IMTU this
was a single extended family.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein

From tim at little-possums.net  Sun Feb  3 16:06:03 2008
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:06:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
In-Reply-To: <889263490802030038o6005077dic13aa9c1055f093d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802030038o6005077dic13aa9c1055f093d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080203230603.GI17664@soprano.little-possums.net>

On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 12:38:54AM -0800, Brad Murray wrote:
> Interzone is small ? at only about 3000km in diameter its
> gravity is barely 10% of a standard G. Nonetheless there is a thin
> and breathable atmosphere

The escape energy is about half that of our Moon.  The existence of
any atmosphere at all is nothing short of miraculous.  For purposes of
a game you could ignore that, of course :-)

I also wonder about the strength of native inhabitants and long-term
residents.  Will they be much weaker, with comparatively fragile
bones?  Without having to constantly fight a 10 m/s^2 acceleration,
atrophy would seem very likely - at least in unmodified humans.
Perhaps the DNA of their distant ancestors was altered to suit their
new home?


- Tim

From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 16:06:15 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <889263490802031506kee9b876g4a33a77c9bd716a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 3:02 PM, Richard Aiken <raikenclw at gmail.com> wrote:
> I know the CT rules literally say "0-No inhabitants," but the next
> step up is "1-Tens of inhabitants."  So I always took the "0" level to
> actually mean "Less than ten inhabitants."  Most of the time IMTU this
> was a single extended family.

We'll revisit exactly this interpretation when we get to Hermitage on,
I think, the 5th.

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 16:12:07 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 15:12:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
In-Reply-To: <20080203230603.GI17664@soprano.little-possums.net>
References: <889263490802030038o6005077dic13aa9c1055f093d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080203230603.GI17664@soprano.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <889263490802031512u7cf90c78t73fc57a36bf3af36@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 3:06 PM, Timothy Little <tim at little-possums.net> wrote:
> The escape energy is about half that of our Moon.  The existence of
> any atmosphere at all is nothing short of miraculous.  For purposes of
> a game you could ignore that, of course :-)

Well the purpose of the Maelstrom exercise is to make sense of what is
rather than determine what should be or, even more boringly, point out
scientific flaws in Traveller.  As I've said before, once we've agreed
to FTL the whole thing is in the air anyway.  So, to that end rather
than "that couldn't happen without a miracle", I'm more interested in,
"how did that happen?"  That is, given the description as *fact*, what
can we extrapolate?  Because solving mysteries is more fun than just
stomping away from the table in disgust.

> I also wonder about the strength of native inhabitants and long-term
> residents.  Will they be much weaker, with comparatively fragile
> bones?  Without having to constantly fight a 10 m/s^2 acceleration,
> atrophy would seem very likely - at least in unmodified humans.
> Perhaps the DNA of their distant ancestors was altered to suit their
> new home?

Mm, rich vein -- the existing inhabitants are all modified!  By who?
For what?  When?  Lovely stuff!  That's the kind of cool material for
a game that I like to see get derived out of simple stats taken as
facts rather than being pinned up for criticism.  "How come that's
true" is way more fun than "that's impossible".

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 16:12:31 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <C3CABDE4.1241B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3CABDE4.1241B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50802031512w1172abdauc2678afb2d350bf0@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 12:40 AM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> <http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-11-13>
>
> Imagine writing *this* one up for FS&S v3...

Well, there are those nanotech jump drive beasties of mine.  Maybe
they aren't *eating* while they pull the ship through jump space,
after all . . .

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 16:20:06 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 18:20:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Fuel-Air Explosive
In-Reply-To: <980196.13947.qm@web45516.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <980196.13947.qm@web45516.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50802031520o3d8eb3ffx33a8484342efe113@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 3, 2008 4:08 AM, Glenn M. Goffin <glenn.goffin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks!  Those are very cool.  Now if they'd just do a
> science-fiction 25mm line!

The bunkers given on their Fortifications page could stand in for
frontier-world outposts.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein

From traveller at dhimaging.com.au  Sun Feb  3 16:31:36 2008
From: traveller at dhimaging.com.au (traveller at dhimaging.com.au)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:31:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00dc01c866bc$ec4c5750$c4e505f0$@com.au>



-----Original Message-----
From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
[mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard Aiken
Sent: Monday, 4 February 2008 10:02 AM
To: The Traveller Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TML] AWAD: Texaco

On Feb 1, 2008 10:10 AM, Brad Murray <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:
> No one lives there and anyone who happens to be
> manning the station isn't there officially.

I know the CT rules literally say "0-No inhabitants," but the next
step up is "1-Tens of inhabitants."  So I always took the "0" level to
actually mean "Less than ten inhabitants."  Most of the time IMTU this
was a single extended family.

-- 
Richard Aiken

===============================================
[joel]

I've always interpreted this to mean how many permanent inhabitants.

I've also used automated robots to 'run' a place, and have a care-taker
onsite to fix the robots.
(Guess there's no reason they couldn't fix each other tho)


From tim at little-possums.net  Sun Feb  3 17:07:28 2008
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:07:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080204000728.GJ17664@soprano.little-possums.net>

On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 06:02:06PM -0500, Richard Aiken wrote:
> I know the CT rules literally say "0-No inhabitants," but the next
> step up is "1-Tens of inhabitants."  So I always took the "0" level to
> actually mean "Less than ten inhabitants."

I always took it to mean "no permanent legal inhabitants".  So there
could be hundreds or even thousands, but they're all citizens of some
other system.  They might even be workers who have children born
there, and most of them are not scheduled to leave until they retire
in 30 years, but they're still not counted as "inhabitants" for
official purposes.

A similar alternative I used once was a planet that did actually have
thousands of people permanently living there, but their presence was
illegal.  The world was legally owned and in pre-colonization stages
of development by others - and had been for nearly a century.


- Tim

From lordronin at vcsweb.com  Sun Feb  3 21:42:21 2008
From: lordronin at vcsweb.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 15:12:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Sprechenhaltestelle
In-Reply-To: <47A4B6C9.7767.45E28B7@rob.davenport.adelphia.net>
References: <47A4B6C9.7767.45E28B7@rob.davenport.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0802041507290.21843@localhost>

Hoi Rob:

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008, Rob Davenport wrote:

> On 2 Feb 2008 at 11:45, Brad Murray wrote:
>
> > [BJM: bonus points to grognards who recognize the name-- man you're old]
> >
> > Sprechenhaltestelle
>
> Ah yes, Top Secret - one my favorite RPGs growing up.  It's sitting
> on my shelf here right now.   My brother used that module but tweaked
> it a bit as I recall.
>
> And yes, I'm that old...

 Lay odds that I am older. {pushing 58} Palyed it that mission back in
IIRC 1980ce. Later ran it about three times. Once when the CT game turned
south and I suddenly had to take it over. Nothing planned. I did an off
the cuff story. Using that adventure for the maps and some atmosphere. As
the team in CT had entered a small community. Turned out well, players
thought I had already written it up. But honestly it was just the
difference between the "admins" for CT. {G}

BCNU
Lord Ronin from Q-Link

-- 
D4 C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= D8
D10 Commodore PCs, Sci/Fi/Fan, Fantasy, Espionage, Role Playing Games  D20
D6 C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C= C=D30

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 21:48:43 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:48:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <20080204000728.GJ17664@soprano.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <C3CC035B.12445%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/3/08 7:07 PM, "Timothy Little" <tim at little-possums.net> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 03, 2008 at 06:02:06PM -0500, Richard Aiken wrote:
>> I know the CT rules literally say "0-No inhabitants," but the next
>> step up is "1-Tens of inhabitants."  So I always took the "0" level to
>> actually mean "Less than ten inhabitants."
> 
> I always took it to mean "no permanent legal inhabitants".  So there
> could be hundreds or even thousands, but they're all citizens of some
> other system.  They might even be workers who have children born
> there, and most of them are not scheduled to leave until they retire
> in 30 years, but they're still not counted as "inhabitants" for
> official purposes.
> 
> A similar alternative I used once was a planet that did actually have
> thousands of people permanently living there, but their presence was
> illegal.  The world was legally owned and in pre-colonization stages
> of development by others - and had been for nearly a century.

I've seen this interpretation many times.  In this regard, it's really
"citizens", not "inhabitants".  Same for situations where the pop code
doesn't register somebody because they weren't found by the survey team, or
recognized as intelligent beings, or simply not reported as inhabitants by
the recognized government...


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 22:40:26 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:40:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
In-Reply-To: <889263490802031512u7cf90c78t73fc57a36bf3af36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CC0F7A.1244B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/3/08 6:12 PM, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well the purpose of the Maelstrom exercise is to make sense of what is
> rather than determine what should be or, even more boringly, point out
> scientific flaws in Traveller.  As I've said before, once we've agreed
> to FTL the whole thing is in the air anyway.  So, to that end rather
> than "that couldn't happen without a miracle", I'm more interested in,
> "how did that happen?"  That is, given the description as *fact*, what
> can we extrapolate?  Because solving mysteries is more fun than just
> stomping away from the table in disgust.
> 
>> <snip>
> 
> Mm, rich vein -- the existing inhabitants are all modified!  By who?
> For what?  When?  Lovely stuff!  That's the kind of cool material for
> a game that I like to see get derived out of simple stats taken as
> facts rather than being pinned up for criticism.  "How come that's
> true" is way more fun than "that's impossible".

Personally, I don't find a bunch of random, mostly unconnected dice rolls to
be a great mystery.  I think good mysteries are crafted on purpose.  What
you describe is just a matter of rationalizing.  But that's me.

The biggest issue for your tiny planets with atmospheres & water is does the
escape velocity allow water to get away.  And equally important, is there a
"water trap" that freezes water out of the air before it gets up high enough
to be dissociated by UV (this kind of overrides the escape velocity).  If
either of those fail, you can't have water, or a lot of other hydrogen
compounds.

Then there is the escape velocity for O2.  If you can't hold that, you're
left with a CO2 atmosphere (Mars & Venus)...  not fun.

I also don't think that allowing FTL allows *anything*.  The basic laws of
physics are still observed, we just postulate that there is some specific
law of physics we don't know yet that allows our FTL.  That doesn't mean the
basic science governing orbits and atmospheres and all that other non-jump
stuff is abolished.


From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 00:02:13 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 23:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Ping!
Message-ID: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  *Ping!*
   
   
    -Ken-
   
   

       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

From tim at little-possums.net  Mon Feb  4 00:25:06 2008
From: tim at little-possums.net (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:25:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
In-Reply-To: <C3CC0F7A.1244B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <889263490802031512u7cf90c78t73fc57a36bf3af36@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CC0F7A.1244B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080204072506.GK17664@soprano.little-possums.net>

On Mon, Feb 04, 2008 at 12:40:26AM -0500, Jerry W Barrington wrote:
> I think good mysteries are crafted on purpose.  What you describe is
> just a matter of rationalizing.  But that's me.

You're not alone in that.


> Then there is the escape velocity for O2.  If you can't hold that,
> you're left with a CO2 atmosphere (Mars & Venus)...  not fun.

In the case of the really small planet, it doesn't have nearly enough
gravity to even retain CO2.  It would escape more slowly than O2, but
still only on the order of a year or so for each halving of density.


> The basic laws of physics are still observed, we just postulate that
> there is some specific law of physics we don't know yet that allows
> our FTL.

To me, this is the fundamental thing that makes science fiction,
*science* fiction.  The fictional world has features extrapolated from
physical laws, and where not otherwise stated those laws are at the
least quite similar to our own.

In my opinion, good science fiction economizes on the number of
unexplained differences in the basic laws.  Where it introduces
something like that, it does so because it is necessary or at least
highly desirable.  In the case of Traveller, a core feature is that
people can travel between stars on familiar human timescales.  That
makes FTL necessary to the premise of the setting.

So going back to the original issue: is it necessary that the planet
be inexplicably small for having a breathable atmosphere?  Was it even
intended?


- Tim

From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 01:09:23 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 00:09:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Pander
Message-ID: <889263490802040009m6e18c8bdi348ac70a596bc241@mail.gmail.com>

Pander

0603 C57A204-B
Gas Giants present
Imperial Scout base present

Pander is a rare independent success story. Like Sprechenhaltestelle,
it is close to the Concord worlds and has a sophisticated local
culture and industry. It trades heavily with all the worlds in the
region and has held its position as an Imperial X-boat node despite
never having had an Imperial Duke present in the system and never
swearing fealty in any other fashion. In fact it's not entirely clear
how Pander has stayed viable without allying itself, but there is no
denying that it has. It's almost certain that the ancient and
brillliant negotiation that secured its position as a critical and
reliable node between the two Imperial Overwatch worlds is the source
of its leverage. Some believe, however, that the current efforts of
the Imperium at Falter are a threat to that position, but if there is
a danger there it's many years away.

Pander orbits a gas giant in the bio zone of a powerful blue K class
star, and this multicoloured giant fills its sky day and night
providing a dull orange glow even when the sun has completely set.
Well, for half the planet, anyway ? Pander is tidally locked to its
giant, so the other half of the planet never sees it. The difference
in energy ? the hemisphere facing the giant receives a great deal of
energy in heat and other radiation ? drives a vigorous weather system
that can make life extremely interesting everywhere but the East and
West Poles ? the point directly under the giant and the point directly
opposite.

Pander is big for a moon but small for a planet. At 8000km in diameter
it sustains about 60% of a standard gravity and a standard pressure
atmosphere. The atmosphere is not perfect mind you ? it's certainly
rich in oxygen but it's also rich in local organics and it is wise to
filter them. While they are not toxic, a substantial percentage of
humans experience an unpleasant allergic reaction and some die
immediately of anaphylactic shock. Travellers are advised to wear
filters until they can have themselves tested by local medical
officials.

The oceans of Pander cover its surface completely and shallowly which
both eases and complicates life for the locals. On the Giantside most
building are maintained underwater with some protruding facilities in
order to avoid the excess of radiation from the giant. On the Skyside
(so called because even when the sun is in the sky Giantside, it's
frequently occluded by the giant anyway) structures have their
foundations underwater but almost all of the occupied space is above
water. Pander orbits the giant once every 74 hours, so Skyside days
and nights are 37 hours long. The oceans teem with local and imported
wildlife and are a rich source of food and industrial materials.

The population of Pander has never been more than a thousand or so
people and there is no official organization or leadership ? in fact
the highest level of organization is the extended family and most
units are smaller than that. Families ply their trade in established
and heavily automated factories or in huge grav schooners for reaping
the benefits of an aquaculture that vastly dwarfs the needs of the
tiny population. The world is consequently one of hard work yet vast
excess ? everyone on Pander is rich by any measure, and they maintain
a starfaring industry if not a starfaring culture.

The starport is an adequate facility but it is not manned by locals
who prefer their castles in the sea. Rather it is staffed by TAS
personnel and other off worlders who are considering establishing
their own stake on Pander. Nonetheless it is supplied by two Pander
families and is fully capable of repairing, maintaining, refuelling,
and even constructing large spacecraft.

While there is no government per se, all of the families have a fairly
similar outlook on reasonable behaviour and will individually or
automatically ensure that the peace is kept. Waving around assault
weapons would be unwise, but most lesser weaponry would be ignored.

An ISS base has existed in the Pander system for ages though no real
efforts have been put forth to recruit Pander into the Pax Imperium.
The base is largely there for scientific purposes ? monitoring the
local wildlife and the unusual astronomy of the region. It's fair to
say that the ISS base also occasionally loses staff to the Pander
culture but this is not considered a problem by the Imperium ? a
steady influx of Vilani into the Pander culture may one day sway it
towards Imperial rule.

Aspects
Each man a king
One sea under two skies

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 02:09:42 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:09:42 +0100
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50802031512w1172abdauc2678afb2d350bf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C3CABDE4.1241B%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<5aca9be50802031512w1172abdauc2678afb2d350bf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580802040109l739188aam12249c41a5774ba4@mail.gmail.com>

Orgone is just an idea from Reich, a student of Freud. In many ways he
reinvented the idea of qi. Qi does exist, whether as a real thing or a
human perception is up for debate. In ether case it is a great tool to
help bring health to people. His ideas of character armor are very
interesting also, especially as a massager you see that memories are
tied to tight muscles and those memories come up as the muscle
releases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich
As you see in the first paragraph he was way ahead of his time and a
creative thinker and was hounded for it. Really a sad story in the
end. Where would science go if good scientist with strong technique
where encouraged to explore the extrem ideas instead of being
ridiculed for it?
Douglas E Knapp


On Feb 4, 2008 12:12 AM, Richard Aiken <raikenclw at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 2008 12:40 AM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > <http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-11-13>
> >
> > Imagine writing *this* one up for FS&S v3...
>
> Well, there are those nanotech jump drive beasties of mine.  Maybe
> they aren't *eating* while they pull the ship through jump space,
> after all . . .
>
> --
> Richard Aiken
>
> "Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>



-- 
Ein Leben ohne Mops ist m?glich,
doch v?llig sinnlos.
-Loriot

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 03:06:48 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 05:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ping!
In-Reply-To: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C3CC4DE8.12456%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 2:02 AM, "Ken & Juliane Murphy" <booksfleamarket at yahoo.com> wrote:

> *Ping!*

Quick, break out the S-3 Vikings and depth charges!


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 06:26:21 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:26:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <f495db580802040109l739188aam12249c41a5774ba4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CC7CAD.12459%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 4:09 AM, "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:

> As you see in the first paragraph he was way ahead of his time and a
> creative thinker and was hounded for it. Really a sad story in the
> end. Where would science go if good scientist with strong technique
> where encouraged to explore the extrem ideas instead of being
> ridiculed for it?

This is a problem with many brilliant people.  They start out great.  Then
they lose it.

I read a lot of that article, and it didn't sound like he was hounded.  He
was selling a cure with no scientific, medical backup.  That's illegal, so
he went to jail.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 06:34:15 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 08:34:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Interzone
In-Reply-To: <20080204072506.GK17664@soprano.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <C3CC7E87.1245C%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 2:25 AM, "Timothy Little" <tim at little-possums.net> wrote:

> In the case of the really small planet, it doesn't have nearly enough
> gravity to even retain CO2.  It would escape more slowly than O2, but
> still only on the order of a year or so for each halving of density.

Don't forget, velocity of the molecules also depends on temperature.  So a
*cold* small world can hold stuff that a small world in Earth's orbit
couldn't.  Of course, that may not work with the planets Brad is posting,
since he isn't describing them as really cold.  Also, too cold and you end
up with lots of gases condensing out.  :P


From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 07:09:19 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 15:09:19 +0100
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <C3CC7CAD.12459%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <f495db580802040109l739188aam12249c41a5774ba4@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CC7CAD.12459%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580802040609v23d41c6bj973f7970fb085352@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 4, 2008 2:26 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2/4/08 4:09 AM, "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As you see in the first paragraph he was way ahead of his time and a
> > creative thinker and was hounded for it. Really a sad story in the
> > end. Where would science go if good scientist with strong technique
> > where encouraged to explore the extrem ideas instead of being
> > ridiculed for it?
>
> This is a problem with many brilliant people.  They start out great.  Then
> they lose it.
>
> I read a lot of that article, and it didn't sound like he was hounded.  He
> was selling a cure with no scientific, medical backup.  That's illegal, so
> he went to jail.

Yes, the hounding came from many sources, and I got that info from a
few books I read about him not the Wiki. His views on sex and women
where the real killers plus the fact that he was getting popular. The
medical device was just a way to get him.

Here is more info about the side of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone

What I really find interesting though is not if he where right or
wrong but the whole way the community reacts to him and his work.

"Reich's work and name has become anathema within the academic world.
Medical societies and the FDA, eager to prevent alleged health-fraud,
lead to a court decision to burn Reich's books which mentioned orgone
and discouraged application of his methods by health practitioners."
Wikipedia

What must one do to get this level of attention?

Burning his work? Does that sound like level headed law and science to
you? How many ufo researchers have had their written works burned? How
many doctors use methods that are not backed by scientific
reseach(most)?

Does this sound like a great character and plot for a Traveller adventure?

Douglas E Knapp

From johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu  Mon Feb  4 09:53:54 2008
From: johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 09:53:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <00dc01c866bc$ec4c5750$c4e505f0$@com.au>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
	<00dc01c866bc$ec4c5750$c4e505f0$@com.au>
Message-ID: <7830F45F-C8BF-4A85-845C-6B98ECF43E99@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


On Feb 3, 2008, at 4:31 PM, <traveller at dhimaging.com.au> <traveller at dhimaging.com.au 
 > wrote:

>
> I've always interpreted this to mean how many permanent inhabitants.
>
> I've also used automated robots to 'run' a place, and have a care- 
> taker
> onsite to fix the robots.
> (Guess there's no reason they couldn't fix each other tho)

Yeah, but SOMEone's gotta teach 'em poker...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From andrew.long at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 10:22:41 2008
From: andrew.long at yahoo.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:22:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Texaco
In-Reply-To: <7830F45F-C8BF-4A85-845C-6B98ECF43E99@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <889263490802010710q266ee908jd7aa45e4b1db02ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50802031502l77ad3307t9a3801a9b125066@mail.gmail.com>
	<00dc01c866bc$ec4c5750$c4e505f0$@com.au>
	<7830F45F-C8BF-4A85-845C-6B98ECF43E99@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <A899E133-B7AD-4D51-A85B-9D7E04B988C5@yahoo.com>


On 4 Feb 2008, at 16:53, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
> On Feb 3, 2008, at 4:31 PM, <traveller at dhimaging.com.au>  
> <traveller at dhimaging.com.au
>> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've always interpreted this to mean how many permanent inhabitants.
>>
>> I've also used automated robots to 'run' a place, and have a care-
>> taker
>> onsite to fix the robots.
>> (Guess there's no reason they couldn't fix each other tho)
>
> Yeah, but SOMEone's gotta teach 'em poker...
>
Agreed, but who's going to teach them not to cheat?

Andy
-- 
Andrew Long
andrew dot long at yahoo dot com




From andrew.long at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 10:30:33 2008
From: andrew.long at yahoo.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:30:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Ping!
In-Reply-To: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A41999AD-D711-49E5-8197-381C47D2721B@yahoo.com>


On 4 Feb 2008, at 07:02, Ken & Juliane Murphy wrote:

>   *Ping!*
>
>
>     -Ken-
>

*pong*!


Andy
-- 
Andrew Long
andrew dot long at yahoo dot com




From ajackson at iii.com  Mon Feb  4 11:21:12 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:21:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <f495db580802030946k3e57afcau9d0a6b0c0fb2aa4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f495db580802030946k3e57afcau9d0a6b0c0fb2aa4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A75798.80609@iii.com>

Knapp wrote:

> My question for all you space experts is what is meant by
> "Significant" here?

Massive enough that you care about the error margin. For typical gaming 
purposes, where you've only got 1-2 significant figures, a factor of ten 
or so will do the job.

Of course, this assumes a two body system. If there are three or more 
massive bodies in the system, the problem gets much nastier.


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 12:37:45 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <47A75798.80609@iii.com>
Message-ID: <C3CCD3B9.1246A%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 1:21 PM, "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson at iii.com> wrote:

> Knapp wrote:
> 
>> My question for all you space experts is what is meant by
>> "Significant" here?
> 
> Massive enough that you care about the error margin. For typical gaming
> purposes, where you've only got 1-2 significant figures, a factor of ten
> or so will do the job.

As Gary's post showed, you want as large a difference as the number of
significant digits you'd like (factor of 100 for 2 digits).  I'd call 2
significant digits a *minimum*.

> Of course, this assumes a two body system. If there are three or more
> massive bodies in the system, the problem gets much nastier.

Given the distances necessary for a reasonably stable arrangement, a system
of multiple large bodies can pretty much be treated as a hierarchy, with
close bodies treated as a unit with reference to more distant bodies.


From ajackson at iii.com  Mon Feb  4 13:10:15 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:10:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <C3CCD3B9.1246A%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3CCD3B9.1246A%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47A77127.4050000@iii.com>

Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> As Gary's post showed, you want as large a difference as the number of
> significant digits you'd like (factor of 100 for 2 digits).  I'd call 2
> significant digits a *minimum*.

Remember, if you have two significant figures, you have considerable 
uncertainty in the second digit. At a mass of 10% of the primary, that 
works out to an error of not more than 5% in year length. Considering 
that non-computerized system generation tools typically have uncertainty 
of more than 10% in the mass of the primary star, any errors caused by 
the superjovian are relatively minor.

From infojunky at ceecom.net  Mon Feb  4 13:30:25 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:30:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ping!
In-Reply-To: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <448516.69572.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5E41A0D2-B01E-4E37-BAC2-5E67DB0BBEA9@ceecom.net>


On Feb 3, 2008, at 11:02 PM, Ken & Juliane Murphy wrote:

>   *Ping!*

! Crash Dive!!! Launch torps down that bearing!

Or at least that is what my connection to the net did late last week.

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Don?t let the fans touch your assets.
				Bruce Harlick, 2007



From infojunky at ceecom.net  Mon Feb  4 13:35:19 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:35:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <C3C65955.12371%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3C65955.12371%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <65D3ECB3-411E-4704-85CE-04DA69E24FB0@ceecom.net>


On Jan 30, 2008, at 1:41 PM, Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> Care to share some of the phrases you googled on?  I tried various  
> combos of
> (beetle or car) and (catapult launch) and (navy) and a few other  
> words.

I rally meant to post them...... But with the outage of connectivity  
and my being
middle-aged fart, I forgot...


Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Don?t let the fans touch your assets.
				Bruce Harlick, 2007



From infojunky at ceecom.net  Mon Feb  4 13:41:30 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:41:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <E244F8B6-ED11-4F7D-9863-0D74E81EF42D@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <3C557A40-AA8B-4E03-8E33-8A875A50F140@ceecom.net>
	<C3C65955.12371%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<1832b5750801302132o74148527nc68f00ae5734fd7d@mail.gmail.com>
	<E244F8B6-ED11-4F7D-9863-0D74E81EF42D@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <8C9E4AB4-4547-4D48-98AE-AA843C788129@ceecom.net>


On Jan 31, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Come up with evidence of the the court-martial or disciplinary hearing
> records over such an incident, then we'll talk, because that's clearly
> something that would get folks busted...

Naw, not really Bruce if the old man says it's ok, then it's ok.
Even my boss giggled at it, and he was Mad Mels direct
superior, being the commander of the Carrier Air Group
and all....

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Then somewhere near Salinas, Lord, I let her slip away,
Lookin' for the home I hope she'll find.
And I'd trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterday,
			Me & Bobby Mcgee,
				Kris Kristofferson




From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 13:47:35 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:47:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Antihijack Program in action
Message-ID: <207538.92203.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

   Hi gang,
     While the Superbowl (c) (tm) apparently raged last night, I was instead watching an *Enterprise* marathon on SciFi.
     Anyhow, one of the episodes, instead of beginning with the laid-back, string-heavy exploration theme song, started out with very martial music and stock footage of unrestrained low-tech warfare mixed with starfleet battle scenes. It felt like some History channel program that should've been narrated by Gerald McRainey or something, but then the Mirror Universe Empire symbol showed prominantly, and it all fell into place.
     Neat-o!
     So a big-ass, 6-or-7m Gorn (I forgot what the broght blue extra said exactly) is hiding in the ventilation shafts or somesuch, and when it hops out to grapple with Cap'n Archer, he tells a tech to *mess with the deckplate settings* (not very technobabblish of me, as we *are* siting Star Trek, but you know what I mean).
     Mr. Gorn is subject to an impressive *20G* takedown.Archer is later assassinated by his concubine,Yoshi.
     It was sooo ObTrav (The 20Gs, I mean).
   
   
    -Ken Murphy-
   
   
    "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
--The Dali Lama
     

       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 14:05:06 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:05:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <47A77127.4050000@iii.com>
Message-ID: <C3CCE832.12471%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 3:10 PM, "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson at iii.com> wrote:

> Jerry W Barrington wrote:
> 
>> As Gary's post showed, you want as large a difference as the number of
>> significant digits you'd like (factor of 100 for 2 digits).  I'd call 2
>> significant digits a *minimum*.
> 
> Remember, if you have two significant figures, you have considerable
> uncertainty in the second digit. At a mass of 10% of the primary, that
> works out to an error of not more than 5% in year length. Considering
> that non-computerized system generation tools typically have uncertainty
> of more than 10% in the mass of the primary star, any errors caused by
> the superjovian are relatively minor.

:)

The system I'm working on will have *much* better precision.  Of course I
have to get the base source to compile first...


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 14:11:20 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <f495db580802040609v23d41c6bj973f7970fb085352@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CCE9A8.12473%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 9:09 AM, "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Burning his work? Does that sound like level headed law and science to
> you? How many ufo researchers have had their written works burned? How
> many doctors use methods that are not backed by scientific
> reseach(most)?

Well, not really interested in a big debate about pseudoscience, but
remember that the law has *never* adhered to level-headed, scientific
principles.  It it was the legal system that burned his stuff, not a
rampaging horde of scientists.  :)

As or UFO researchers, I've never actually heard of them getting their books
burned.  But anybody who tells you they know what UFOs are is missing the U
in UFO...


From ajackson at iii.com  Mon Feb  4 14:53:23 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:53:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] The proper year length of a super jovian
In-Reply-To: <C3CCE832.12471%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3CCE832.12471%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47A78953.7060605@iii.com>

Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> The system I'm working on will have *much* better precision.  Of course I
> have to get the base source to compile first...

Ah. Well, if you're using a computer program, it's certainly easier to 
just always add up the masses.

From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Mon Feb  4 16:10:20 2008
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:10:20 -0700
Subject: [TML] Almost combat armor
Message-ID: <731AB254-F704-48A5-BAA6-C62B80D21CA1@travellercentral.com>

Take a look at this armor

http://gizmodo.com/352266/peruvian-anti+riot-police-uniforms-look-like-judge-dredd-meets-batman

From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Mon Feb  4 16:16:32 2008
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:16:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Antihijack Program in action
References: <207538.92203.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c86784$00268e90$912b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken & Juliane Murphy" <booksfleamarket at yahoo.com>
To: <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:47 PM
Subject: [TML] Antihijack Program in action


>   Hi gang,
>     While the Superbowl (c) (tm) apparently raged last night, I was 
> instead watching an *Enterprise* marathon on SciFi.
>     Anyhow, one of the episodes, instead of beginning with the laid-back, 
> string-heavy exploration theme song, started out with very martial music 
> and stock footage of unrestrained low-tech warfare mixed with starfleet 
> battle scenes. It felt like some History channel program that should've 
> been narrated by Gerald McRainey or something, but then the Mirror 
> Universe Empire symbol showed prominantly, and it all fell into place.
>     Neat-o!
>     So a big-ass, 6-or-7m Gorn (I forgot what the broght blue extra said 
> exactly) is hiding in the ventilation shafts or somesuch, and when it hops 
> out to grapple with Cap'n Archer, he tells a tech to *mess with the 
> deckplate settings* (not very technobabblish of me, as we *are* siting 
> Star Trek, but you know what I mean).
>     Mr. Gorn is subject to an impressive *20G* takedown.Archer is later 
> assassinated by his concubine,Yoshi.
>     It was sooo ObTrav (The 20Gs, I mean).
it was also the flip side of TOS episode "Tholian Web".

Garry
>
>
>    -Ken Murphy-
>
>
>    "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
> --The Dali Lama
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it 
> now.
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 17:43:50 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 01:43:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] New power source?
In-Reply-To: <C3CCE9A8.12473%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <f495db580802040609v23d41c6bj973f7970fb085352@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3CCE9A8.12473%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580802041643x26c68350qbf1e6305437c61ce@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 4, 2008 10:11 PM, Jerry W Barrington <jursamaj at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2/4/08 9:09 AM, "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Burning his work? Does that sound like level headed law and science to
> > you? How many ufo researchers have had their written works burned? How
> > many doctors use methods that are not backed by scientific
> > reseach(most)?
>
> Well, not really interested in a big debate about pseudoscience, but
> remember that the law has *never* adhered to level-headed, scientific
> principles.  It it was the legal system that burned his stuff, not a
> rampaging horde of scientists.  :)
>
> As or UFO researchers, I've never actually heard of them getting their books
> burned.  But anybody who tells you they know what UFOs are is missing the U
> in UFO...

I have no interest in debating pseudoscience (these people piss me
off, along with marketers, but I do have a soft spot of well
intentioned bad science.), more about limits being place on real
science because the subject is "known" not to be valid. It is a funny
thing about science that you can only research and be published in per
reviewed magazines when you are studying accepted subjects. If you do
totally valid research on a subject like UFO's or whatever you will
have a hard time with it from mainline people. One of the reasons some
people write SF is to explore subjects that they would be limited with
in their professional world. I wish I could come up with a story or
author off the top of my head but I can't. One of the great things
about SF is the ability to explore things like the disk world we
explored here a bit ago.

Douglas E Knapp

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 20:08:51 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Pander
In-Reply-To: <889263490802040009m6e18c8bdi348ac70a596bc241@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3CD3D73.1247E%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 3:09 AM, "Brad Murray" <bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com> wrote:

> An ISS base has existed in the Pander system for ages though no real
> efforts have been put forth to recruit Pander into the Pax Imperium.
> The base is largely there for scientific purposes ? monitoring the
> local wildlife and the unusual astronomy of the region. It's fair to
> say that the ISS base also occasionally loses staff to the Pander
> culture but this is not considered a problem by the Imperium ? a
> steady influx of Vilani into the Pander culture may one day sway it
> towards Imperial rule.

Why recruit the locals at all?  As there is no government, there's nobody to
negotiate with.  Simply land a colony of more people than are already there,
and create your own government.  :)


From domhanai at juno.com  Mon Feb  4 21:44:43 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 04:44:43 GMT
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
Message-ID: <20080204.204443.5007.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com>

BTW it is spelled "naval," unless I've misinterpreted the postings and they have been about belly buttons.
 
Cougashika - grumble grumble

_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free info on Graduate Degrees.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifmxH8QaqBaQ7xKfMPZrSQvjRddK0WEkjYs7DdzfB5WdPi0M/

From domhanai at juno.com  Mon Feb  4 21:47:14 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 04:47:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] Ping!
Message-ID: <20080204.204714.5007.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com>

"Don't worry; they always do a Yankee search in these waters. Just watch out for a Crazy Ivan."
Cougashika - surface warfare: the only way to fight

_____________________________________________________________
Click for free info on college degrees.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iieX4nXG62xcGIkcqa5d91zU0ZR9L0MxGJE1P53UlZPCLqDdS/

From domhanai at juno.com  Mon Feb  4 21:59:28 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 04:59:28 GMT
Subject: [TML] Almost combat armor
Message-ID: <20080204.205928.5007.2@webmail18.dca.untd.com>

Todd Glenn webmaster at travellercentral.com, on Feb. 4, at 3:10 PM, posted:
>Take a look at this armor

>http://gizmodo.com/352266/peruvian-anti+riot-police-uniforms-look-like-judge-dredd-meets-b
>atman
 
Wow! 21st Century Landsknechts! Actually, their uniforms need more color....
ObTrav: could be Sollie armor, but I'm voting on Swordies.
 
Cougashika - the other white meat


_____________________________________________________________
Save hundreds on getting a Web Design Degree. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iigg17ACiuYnPuBg4pyKSkJvvrWwkLnFApC3t7qTXVDOdoi1W/

From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  4 22:05:20 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:05:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <20080204.204443.5007.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <C3CD58C0.12487%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/4/08 11:44 PM, "domhanai at juno.com" <domhanai at juno.com> wrote:

> BTW it is spelled "naval," unless I've misinterpreted the postings and they
> have been about belly buttons.

I was gonna dredge up the old joke about navel warfare, but just didn't have
the energy.  :)


From traveller at dhimaging.com.au  Mon Feb  4 23:17:48 2008
From: traveller at dhimaging.com.au (traveller at dhimaging.com.au)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Antihijack Program in action
In-Reply-To: <207538.92203.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <207538.92203.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <014801c867be$d85e3940$891aabc0$@com.au>



-----Original Message-----
From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com
[mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Ken & Juliane Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2008 7:48 AM
To: tml at travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Antihijack Program in action

   Hi gang,
     While the Superbowl (c) (tm) apparently raged last night, I was instead
watching an *Enterprise* marathon on SciFi.
     Anyhow, one of the episodes, instead of beginning with the laid-back,
string-heavy exploration theme song, started out with very martial music and
stock footage of unrestrained low-tech warfare mixed with starfleet battle
scenes. It felt like some History channel program that should've been
narrated by Gerald McRainey or something, but then the Mirror Universe
Empire symbol showed prominantly, and it all fell into place.
     Neat-o!
     So a big-ass, 6-or-7m Gorn (I forgot what the broght blue extra said
exactly) is hiding in the ventilation shafts or somesuch, and when it hops
out to grapple with Cap'n Archer, he tells a tech to *mess with the
deckplate settings* (not very technobabblish of me, as we *are* siting Star
Trek, but you know what I mean).
     Mr. Gorn is subject to an impressive *20G* takedown.Archer is later
assassinated by his concubine,Yoshi.
     It was sooo ObTrav (The 20Gs, I mean).
   
   
    -Ken Murphy-

===============================================
[joel]

That is one of my favourite episodes of Enterprise!
I LOVE the intro!

And I thought the same about the grav plates and Traveller.  :)


From sablemage at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Feb  5 01:31:36 2008
From: sablemage at yahoo.co.uk (Andy Slack)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 08:31:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <C3CD58C0.12487%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <20080204.204443.5007.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
	<C3CD58C0.12487%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c867d1$85f6d0f0$91e472d0$@co.uk>

> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com [mailto:tml-
> bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Jerry W Barrington
> Sent: 05 February 2008 05:05
> To: TML
> Subject: Re: [TML] Navel Silliness
> 
> On 2/4/08 11:44 PM, "domhanai at juno.com" <domhanai at juno.com> wrote:
> 
> > BTW it is spelled "naval," unless I've misinterpreted the postings and
> they
> > have been about belly buttons.
> 
> I was gonna dredge up the old joke about navel warfare, but just didn't
> have
> the energy.  :)

Just as well. It would be a casus belli.

Andy
(ducks for cover)


From gndonald2001 at yahoo.com.au  Tue Feb  5 06:40:42 2008
From: gndonald2001 at yahoo.com.au (Graham Donald)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 00:40:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
Message-ID: <428620.93841.qm@web55601.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Normally I would not post something like this, but on
this occasion I am going to make an exception.

A new SFRPG has just been released. It is called
'Thousand Suns' and from the design notes Traveller in
it's original incarnation is one of the inspirations
along with much of the 20thC's best Space Opera.

The creators approach seems to be somewhat like that
Columbia Games used with the low fantasy Harn setting
back in the 80s, namely provide a fairly detailed
background and let the GM do the work of expanding on
the setting from a fixed present.

The homepage for the setting is
(http://tinyurl.com/2pg4yr). 

If nothing else it might be something worth watching
just to see how it goes...

Graham

...I have not spoken of the work Santha and I did in the South Pacific around the Tahitian islands of Taiatea and Huahine, or of the strange things we saw underwater off the Tongan island of Haapai. (Graham Hancock, Underworld 2002)


      Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail



From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 08:17:40 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 07:17:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Hermitage
Message-ID: <889263490802050717q37b269cehd59e5b6d877b8e9c@mail.gmail.com>

Hermitage

0701 E455051-5
Gas giants present

Hermitage is, predictably, a little eccentric. It was founded a few
dozen years ago by Roland Bathurst, a rich individual with a stock of
automatics and anagathics and strong desire to be left alone.
Hermitage is where he resides. Alone.

It's a small world some 6000km in diameter which holds Roland to the
ground with about a third of a gravity. It has a thin atmosphere which
Roland says builds character and vigour by forcing a deliberate
attendance to ones breathing. There's enough water for Roland and a
smattering of local life, which is mostly bacterial and fungal in
nature but fortunately has no taste for terrestrial biology. Much of
it is edible, however, which is lucky for Roland.

Roland is alone and consequently is free to establish whatever form of
government he likes. He has established a kind of technological
meritocracy but he is finding himself somewhat disenfranchised of late
and may change it to suit his evolving needs. Roland frowns on
concealed weapons and explosives and will jail anyone who violates the
local laws indefinitely. He carries no weapons or armour of his own
but is quite charismatic.

Roland's automation is self-sustaining at low levels of output, which
suits Roland. It runs a couple of open pit mines and supplies Roland
with electricity, a radio, and simple vehicles when he needs them.
Roland is an accomplished pilot of fixed wing aircraft, wheeled
vehicles, and balloons.

Aspects
Roland Bathurst, king of the world
Completely alone

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu  Tue Feb  5 09:39:03 2008
From: johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:39:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Ping!
In-Reply-To: <20080204.204714.5007.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080204.204714.5007.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <B231C7BF-007C-419B-A0E1-CFD422BCDF3D@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


On Feb 4, 2008, at 9:47 PM, domhanai at juno.com wrote:

> "Don't worry; they always do a Yankee search in these waters. Just  
> watch out for a Crazy Ivan."
> Cougashika - surface warfare: the only way to fight


"oh, lookee down there...a submarine being chased by a surface ship!  
How quaint! FIRE CROWBARS!!"

--orbital warfare: the other only way to fight.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From hobartfloyt at neonbob.com  Tue Feb  5 10:14:25 2008
From: hobartfloyt at neonbob.com (Art O'Mary)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:14:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
Message-ID: <001801c8681a$ec42d360$9784fe04@laptop>


>> Well in the nada category there's this:
>> http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/images/catting_a_ford.jpg
> 
> Wasn't 65 the number of the nuclear version of the Enterprise....

Indeed it is.  That's one my dad served on, off Vietnam.  As well as
Independence, and I believe the Forrestal (before it became the Forest
Fire).

It's sad the number of these old beauties that are scheduled to be scuttled.
:(

Mostly scrapped, actually. Although they did make an artificial reef of the Oriskany (after a long ordeal - hurricanes and environmental regs among the issues) and it's now a premier scuba diving attraction. Good for the local economy, too. 
ObTrav - It's possible that some famous starships would be turned into museums. The PC's are hired to enter the ship as tourists to find the (insert plot hook item) for (insert patron of choice). Mayhem ensues as they must break into a sealed portion of the ship, evading security, guides (who may be veterans and are *very* upset at anyone damaging their vessel), tour groups and of course the Opposing Team(s) who are also after (plot hook item).
ALO


Guns don't kill people. What kills people are bullets going really, really fast.

From tml at stempest.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb  5 11:50:31 2008
From: tml at stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:50:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Ping!
In-Reply-To: <B231C7BF-007C-419B-A0E1-CFD422BCDF3D@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20080204.204714.5007.1@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
	<B231C7BF-007C-419B-A0E1-CFD422BCDF3D@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <tnbhq3hkmrmo4do79t23kksv0pr493u8gg@4ax.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson at pharmacy.arizona.edu> writes:

>"oh, lookee down there...a submarine being chased by a surface ship!  
>How quaint! FIRE CROWBARS!!"
>
>--orbital warfare: the other only way to fight.

"Sorry, Sir, but following recent naval budget cutbacks we no longer
have any crowbars to drop. Also this ship is ordered to return to base
for decommissioning. Apparently trade disruptions in the Massilia
sector triggered an Imperium-wide recession, necessitating a 20%
across-the-board reduction in all services' spending...

-- manipulation: the Hiver way to fight.


Stephen


From stosh at sympatico.ca  Tue Feb  5 12:26:02 2008
From: stosh at sympatico.ca (Michael Stasica)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:26:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <001801c8681a$ec42d360$9784fe04@laptop>
References: <001801c8681a$ec42d360$9784fe04@laptop>
Message-ID: <op.t52f9tps4unwo7@your-92ff8e5773>

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:14:25 -0500, Art O'Mary <hobartfloyt at neonbob.com>  
wrote:


>
>
> Guns don't kill people. What kills people are bullets going really,  
> really fast.

No Grasshopper, I beleive that people are killed by not 'letting' their
body flow around the bullets fast enough.

Michael

From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb  5 13:00:37 2008
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
References: <001801c8681a$ec42d360$9784fe04@laptop>
	<op.t52f9tps4unwo7@your-92ff8e5773>
Message-ID: <000d01c86832$088708e0$8c2c4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Stasica" <stosh at sympatico.ca>
To: "The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Navel Silliness


> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:14:25 -0500, Art O'Mary <hobartfloyt at neonbob.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Guns don't kill people. What kills people are bullets going really,
>> really fast.
>
> No Grasshopper, I beleive that people are killed by not 'letting' their
> body flow around the bullets fast enough.

Even more importantly, they forget the basic rule: don't piss off anyone 
with a gun.

Garry
>
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From kellys at efn.org  Tue Feb  5 18:58:18 2008
From: kellys at efn.org (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:58:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] AWAD: Hermitage
In-Reply-To: <889263490802050717q37b269cehd59e5b6d877b8e9c@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <889263490802050717q37b269cehd59e5b6d877b8e9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080205175744.01b682c0@pop.efn.org>

No man is an island, but this one's a planet.

Delightfully goofy.  Thanks for posting this.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair     Official sponsor of the Galactic Frungy League
kellys at efn.org             "FRUNGY:  The Sport of KINGS!"


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 19:29:19 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:29:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <001801c8681a$ec42d360$9784fe04@laptop>
Message-ID: <C3CE85AF.1249E%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/5/08 12:14 PM, "Art O'Mary" <hobartfloyt at neonbob.com> wrote:

> Mostly scrapped, actually.

Mostly, yes, but Independence, Forrestal, and Constellation are all planned
for scuttling, dates yet to be determined.

Forrestal: "will be donated to a State and sunk in a deep water reef, for
fishery propagation, so that it is inaccessible to divers."

Independence: "In April, 2004, Navy officials identified her as one of 24
decommissioned ships available to be sunk as artificial reefs."  Which is
ironic, since the *1st* Independence carrier, CLV-22, was scuttled in '51,
the only other US carrier scuttled besides Oriskany, having survived 2
atomic blasts, at least one only 1/2 mile from ground zero!


From jursamaj at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  5 22:16:10 2008
From: jursamaj at yahoo.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 00:16:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
In-Reply-To: <428620.93841.qm@web55601.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C3CEACCA.124A1%jursamaj@yahoo.com>

On 2/5/08 8:40 AM, "Graham Donald" <gndonald2001 at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> Normally I would not post something like this, but on
> this occasion I am going to make an exception.
> 
> A new SFRPG has just been released. It is called
> 'Thousand Suns' and from the design notes Traveller in
> it's original incarnation is one of the inspirations
> along with much of the 20thC's best Space Opera.
> 
> The creators approach seems to be somewhat like that
> Columbia Games used with the low fantasy Harn setting
> back in the 80s, namely provide a fairly detailed
> background and let the GM do the work of expanding on
> the setting from a fixed present.
> 
> The homepage for the setting is
> (http://tinyurl.com/2pg4yr).
> 
> If nothing else it might be something worth watching
> just to see how it goes...

Well, It sounds interesting and like they've spent a good bit of effort on
it.  To me though, it suffers 1 fatal flaw: it's D20.  :P


From infojunky at ceecom.net  Tue Feb  5 23:25:55 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <C3CE85AF.1249E%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3CE85AF.1249E%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DBCD7505-0145-46FD-BBC6-CD59F30D0BDB@ceecom.net>


On Feb 5, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> On 2/5/08 12:14 PM, "Art O'Mary" <hobartfloyt at neonbob.com> wrote:
>
>> Mostly scrapped, actually.
>
> Mostly, yes, but Independence, Forrestal, and Constellation are all  
> planned
> for scuttling, dates yet to be determined.

I'd pay to see that, at least for the Constellation, hell I'd  
volunteer to
set the charges....


Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

I was once a shining knight, who was the guardian of a king
I have searched the whole world over, looking for a place to sleep
I have seen the strong survive and I have seen the lean grown weak
							Don Quixote
								G. Lightfoot



From infojunky at ceecom.net  Tue Feb  5 23:27:15 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:27:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Navel Silliness
In-Reply-To: <20080204.204443.5007.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080204.204443.5007.0@webmail18.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <E16EF605-F5E7-4C86-938A-713B9CA2368D@ceecom.net>


On Feb 5, 2008, at 4:44 AM, domhanai at juno.com wrote:

> BTW it is spelled "naval," unless I've misinterpreted the postings  
> and they have been about belly buttons.

Yes they have been.... The USN was involved....

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Don?t let the fans touch your assets.
				Bruce Harlick, 2007



From infojunky at ceecom.net  Tue Feb  5 23:33:33 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:33:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
In-Reply-To: <C3CEACCA.124A1%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
References: <C3CEACCA.124A1%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4EB8B099-C2B7-4290-81AE-A68B9D1824B2@ceecom.net>


On Feb 5, 2008, at 9:16 PM, Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> Well, It sounds interesting and like they've spent a good bit of  
> effort on
> it.  To me though, it suffers 1 fatal flaw: it's D20.  :P

Yep, that got me too, though if the fluff is good I might spring for  
that.

Note I am not truly anti D20, it's I've just play far to much of it  
in the
last decade, to the point of considering dumping my old stand by
group that is fixated on D&D for either nothing or forming a new
crowd that isn't stuck with on system.

Damnit I'm looking for traveller, but not traveller......

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

Then somewhere near Salinas, Lord, I let her slip away,
Lookin' for the home I hope she'll find.
And I'd trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterday,
			Me & Bobby Mcgee,
				Kris Kristofferson




From bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 23:42:14 2008
From: bjmurray.halfjack at gmail.com (Brad Murray)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:42:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
In-Reply-To: <4EB8B099-C2B7-4290-81AE-A68B9D1824B2@ceecom.net>
References: <C3CEACCA.124A1%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
	<4EB8B099-C2B7-4290-81AE-A68B9D1824B2@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <889263490802052242u3f22ede2sdf078955e51e2dd1@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 10:33 PM, Evyn MacDude <infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Note I am not truly anti D20, it's I've just play far to much of it
> in the
> last decade, to the point of considering dumping my old stand by
> group that is fixated on D&D for either nothing or forming a new
> crowd that isn't stuck with on system.
>
> Damnit I'm looking for traveller, but not traveller......

If you're ever in Vancouver, come playtest with us.  We need more
Traveller veterans to hammer on our atrocity which, I believe, is the
one true Traveller.  A fan hack in three little black books.

-- 
Brad Murray (halfjack)

From skaran at bordernet.com.au  Tue Feb  5 23:43:26 2008
From: skaran at bordernet.com.au (Antony Farrell)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:43:26 +0900
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
In-Reply-To: <C3CEACCA.124A1%jursamaj@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000401c8688b$9a03eaf0$0300a8c0@skaran>

> 
> Well, It sounds interesting and like they've spent a good bit 
> of effort on it.  To me though, it suffers 1 fatal flaw: it's D20.  :P
> 
Reading some the blurb on this it appears to me that it has turned into D12.

Antony

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.20/1259 - Release Date: 4/02/2008
8:42 PM
 


From rboleyn at ihug.co.nz  Wed Feb  6 00:08:09 2008
From: rboleyn at ihug.co.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:08:09 +1300
Subject: [TML] NEW SFRPG - Thousand Suns
In-Reply-To: <000401c8688b$9a03eaf0$0300a8c0@skaran>
References: <000401c8688b$9a03eaf0$0300a8c0@skaran>
Message-ID: <47A95CD9.7020908@ihug.co.nz>

Antony Farrell wrote:
>> Well, It sounds interesting and like they've spent a good bit 
>> of effort on it.  To me though, it suffers 1 fatal flaw: it's D20.  :P
>>
> Reading some the blurb on this it appears to me that it has turned into D12.
> 
> Antony

Looks almost like TNE with 2d12