From erisred at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  1 01:52:53 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:52:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Interesting Site
Message-ID: <48425555.8030700@bellsouth.net>

I ran across this site that has a bunch of game sessions saved 
as mp3's.

http://www.rpgmp3.com/

Down near the bottom there is a Traveller game: Session 1 
where they roll up characters and the game is explained to 
them and Session 2 where they play a bit. I got a kick 
listening to them. :)

Eris

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 00:34:37 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 07:34:37 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <PBELIEMAEKFJADHMKFLLMEMPGMAA.josephnjody@sbcglobal.net>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
	<PBELIEMAEKFJADHMKFLLMEMPGMAA.josephnjody@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20080601073437.5ebaba18@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:17:40 -0400
"Joseph Paul" <josephnjody at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Hello Joseph,

> participate in the TML but don't actually get to play.

I'd noticed that, too.  I used to play on a weekly, sometimes twice,
basis.  I did so for a period something like ten years.  I can't
remember the last time I played anything, but it was before I met my
wife, some fifteen years ago now.

Where does the time *go*!?

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

When I say ugly, I don't mean rough looking, I mean hideous
Ugly - The Stranglers

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 00:32:01 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 07:32:01 +0100
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F038B6B95@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>
References: <C46659CE.14260%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F038B6B95@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>
Message-ID: <20080601073201.35352c17@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sat, 31 May 2008 19:46:26 -0400
"Leon Wu" <Leon.Wu at newswire.ca> wrote:

Hello Leon,

> > Wait... how do Schr?dinger's pirates work?
> They may be out there, you just can't turn on your sensors to look
> for them...

Oh yes you can;  You just won't locate them with any certainty.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Your father was a megalomaniac, you've got an insane brother
Pure Mania - The Vibrators

From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 02:08:36 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:08:36 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <C467D144.142A0%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 12:29 AM, "Tod Glenn" <webmaster at travellercentral.com> wrote:

> 
> O
>> Jonathan Broederlow, 36, Kawerau, New Zealand.
>> I first got into Traveller with TNE, and have since migrated to CT, if
>> that makes any sense at all.
>> I have never played Traveller. Never. This is a source of great
>> shame to
>> me.
>> I don't have a current game, the last was D&D3.5
>> 
>> As a side note, I am the TMLer closest to Whakatane, site of the
>> infamous Hedgehog-Throwing incident. I'd like to say this is an
>> aberration... But for Whakatane - it's not.
> 
> 
> I hope this census is going to put some players together.  So far I've
> seen three players in NZ post here, more than the number of TMLers in
> Montana.

Yeah well, NZ has 4.25 million people compared to Montana's 1 million.  :)


From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 02:23:08 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:23:08 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <20080601073437.5ebaba18@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <C467D4AC.142A1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 2:34 AM, "Brad Rogers" <brad at fineby.me.uk> wrote:

> On Sat, 31 May 2008 18:17:40 -0400
> "Joseph Paul" <josephnjody at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Joseph,
> 
>> participate in the TML but don't actually get to play.
> 
> I'd noticed that, too.  I used to play on a weekly, sometimes twice,
> basis.  I did so for a period something like ten years.  I can't
> remember the last time I played anything, but it was before I met my
> wife, some fifteen years ago now.
> 
> Where does the time *go*!?

That's funny... last time I really played was before I got married.

I think there's a conspiracy afoot!


From infojunky at ceecom.net  Sun Jun  1 02:32:08 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 01:32:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <PBELIEMAEKFJADHMKFLLMEMPGMAA.josephnjody@sbcglobal.net>
References: <PBELIEMAEKFJADHMKFLLMEMPGMAA.josephnjody@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <70314FFE-40E6-41FA-8773-A18C8317C4D2@ceecom.net>


On  May31 08, at 15:17, Joseph Paul wrote:

> Evyn- will you be compiling this into an actual census? A breakdown  
> of the
> numbers could be interesting especially as it looks like many of us
> participate in the TML but don't actually get to play.

I will tumbnail something up in a whiles, need to ping Listmom for  
the number of subscibers.

I probably have a promo blurb in there too, but all will hit here  
before the street.

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House  
Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but  
neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that  
of any other participant, may be revealed"






From infojunky at ceecom.net  Sun Jun  1 02:35:52 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 01:35:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>
	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <42295B79-5891-4639-97DD-863DA875FEE3@ceecom.net>


On  May31 08, at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I hope this census is going to put some players together.

Me too, it has been a whiles since any of us had a get together.

> So far I've seen three players in NZ post here, more than the  
> number of TMLers in Montana.

Montana is a big state, just not very populated.

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House  
Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but  
neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that  
of any other participant, may be revealed"






From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 02:35:13 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 09:35:13 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <C467D4AC.142A1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <20080601073437.5ebaba18@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<C467D4AC.142A1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080601093513.225ab686@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:23:08 -0400
Jerry W Barrington <jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Jerry,

> That's funny... last time I really played was before I got married.

The trouble is, marriage and kids tend to take over.  Rapidly.

> I think there's a conspiracy afoot!

Yeah, bl**dy wimmin!   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
Paradise City - Guns 'N' Roses

From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 02:51:40 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:51:40 -0400
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <20080601073201.35352c17@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <C467DB5C.142A5%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 2:32 AM, "Brad Rogers" <brad at fineby.me.uk> wrote:

> Oh yes you can;  You just won't locate them with any certainty.

No, uncertainty is Heisenberg's shtick.  Schr?dinger's is quantum
superposition.


From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 03:28:37 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:28:37 +0100
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <C467DB5C.142A5%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <20080601073201.35352c17@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<C467DB5C.142A5%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080601102837.4e46d525@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:51:40 -0400
Jerry W Barrington <jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Jerry,

> On 6/1/08 2:32 AM, "Brad Rogers" <brad at fineby.me.uk> wrote:
> > Oh yes you can;  You just won't locate them with any certainty.
> No, uncertainty is Heisenberg's shtick.  Schr?dinger's is quantum

Really?  Are you sure?   :-)

> superposition.

True, but the thing is, right, with Schr?dinger, right, the thing is,
the indeterminate nature of the outcome.

Okay, so it was 50-50, rather than tending to zero....

Oh, I'm not playing any more.   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

I'll be the rubbish you'll be the bin
Love Song - The Damned

From pare at pieni.net  Sun Jun  1 03:42:02 2008
From: pare at pieni.net (Mikko Parviainen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:42:02 +0300
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <20080601093513.225ab686@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <20080601073437.5ebaba18@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<C467D4AC.142A1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<20080601093513.225ab686@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20080601094202.GB13303@pieni.net>

On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 09:35:13AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > That's funny... last time I really played was before I got married.
> The trouble is, marriage and kids tend to take over.  Rapidly.

Well, in my experience it makes it a bit more difficult to arrange
game sessions. The usual tactic here nowadays is to take a weekday and
game every other week or so. In that way even the people with families
can arrange a free night. I can play in at most two games that often.

> > I think there's a conspiracy afoot!
> Yeah, bl**dy wimmin!   :-)

My wife is currently playing in more rpg campaigns than I am... I can't
really call that a conspiracy. :)

-- 
Mikko Parviainen
http://www.iki.fi/pare/
http://mikkop.livejournal.com/

From gaming at 3rd-imperium.com  Sun Jun  1 03:59:05 2008
From: gaming at 3rd-imperium.com (gaming at 3rd-imperium.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:59:05 PDT
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
Message-ID: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
> start.

Kris Miller, 44; Lick Observatory, California.
MegaTraveller.  My club, Tactics-0, mostly does board and miniatures games, but
we have an intermittent game of MT run by Glenn Goffin where we play agents of
the RSSP (Regina Sector Security Police).


From gaming at 3rd-imperium.com  Sun Jun  1 03:59:05 2008
From: gaming at 3rd-imperium.com (gaming at 3rd-imperium.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:59:05 PDT
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
Message-ID: <54172.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
> start.

Kris Miller, 44; Lick Observatory, California.
MegaTraveller.  My club, Tactics-0, mostly does board and miniatures games, but
we have an intermittent game of MT run by Glenn Goffin where we play agents of
the RSSP (Regina Sector Security Police).


From gaming at 3rd-imperium.com  Sun Jun  1 03:59:05 2008
From: gaming at 3rd-imperium.com (gaming at 3rd-imperium.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:59:05 PDT
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
Message-ID: <54175.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
> start.

Kris Miller, 44; Lick Observatory, California.
MegaTraveller.  My club, Tactics-0, mostly does board and miniatures games, but
we have an intermittent game of MT run by Glenn Goffin where we play agents of
the RSSP (Regina Sector Security Police).


From gaming at 3rd-imperium.com  Sun Jun  1 04:01:19 2008
From: gaming at 3rd-imperium.com (gaming at 3rd-imperium.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:01:19 PDT
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
Message-ID: <54267.1212314479@3rd-imperium.com>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
> start.

Kris Miller, 44; Lick Observatory, California.
MegaTraveller.  My club, Tactics-0, plays mostly Traveller board and miniatures
games, but we have an intermittent game of MT run by Glenn Goffin where we play
agents of the RSSP (Regina Sector Security Police).


From hemdian at trisen.com  Sun Jun  1 05:02:00 2008
From: hemdian at trisen.com (Hemdian)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:02:00 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <001801c8c3d6$ec10c9c0$c4325d40$@com>

Peter Trevor, 4 ... er ... classified, London (Wembley), MT rules (plus
houserules) in CT era, Started RPGs in 1980 and Traveller since 1981 ... No
current game ... had a long term group recently fold but that's freed up
more time to work on a backlog of Traveller projects (like Universe 2).

<http://sol.trisen.com>




From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Sun Jun  1 06:37:22 2008
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:37:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <42295B79-5891-4639-97DD-863DA875FEE3@ceecom.net>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>
	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
	<42295B79-5891-4639-97DD-863DA875FEE3@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <1212323842.8690.5.camel@ubuntu-dev>


> > So far I've seen three players in NZ post here, more than the  
> > number of TMLers in Montana.
> 
> Montana is a big state, just not very populated.

Really?  I did not know that.  <grin>



From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Sun Jun  1 06:39:41 2008
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 06:39:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <E57F7B58-D19A-4C53-83DA-B2D8D954C880@travellercentral.com>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
	<3ct044h1r89qfcgf9ni42mdduqga9bbckr@4ax.com>
	<561D9982-E0DA-4452-86EE-EB6723B34CD6@email.arizona.edu>
	<FA03A641-F57D-4406-B55F-645FBEEBCC0D@travellercentral.com>
	<E57F7B58-D19A-4C53-83DA-B2D8D954C880@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <1212323981.8690.8.camel@ubuntu-dev>

O> CT since 1977, with plenty of house rules.  Just picked up Mongoose
> > buy haven't had a chance to look it over yet.  Just introduced a new
> > gaming group to Traveller, and have a regular game every other  
> > weekend.
> 
> Do I get to meet them when I show up on your doorstep?

Traveller is on alternate Sundays.  EOD (post holocaust) is every other
Friday.  Visitors are always welcome.

I can also put you in touch with Travellers in Great Falls.


From matphasriscova at internode.on.net  Sun Jun  1 08:04:46 2008
From: matphasriscova at internode.on.net (matphasriscova)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 00:04:46 +1000
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <1212323842.8690.5.camel@ubuntu-dev>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>	<42295B79-5891-4639-97DD-863DA875FEE3@ceecom.net>
	<1212323842.8690.5.camel@ubuntu-dev>
Message-ID: <4842AC7E.1080902@internode.on.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
>>> So far I've seen three players in NZ post here, more than the  
>>> number of TMLers in Montana.
>>>       
>> Montana is a big state, just not very populated.
>>     
>
> Really?  I did not know that.  <grin>
>
>   
Well, my name is on the densified fuel storage article over at Freelance
Traveller.  Age 25, Brisvegas, QLD - so yes, CT predates me.  GT all the
way, but have never played a game of Trav in my life, only ever GMed. 
My main schtick seems to be getting people who have never played Trav
before to play it and enjoy it.

From toph at interchange.ubc.ca  Sun Jun  1 09:26:40 2008
From: toph at interchange.ubc.ca (C. W. Marshall)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:26:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2610.1212306725.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
References: <mailman.2610.1212306725.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <79AE950D-886B-4C02-BE70-70548ACE2935@interchange.ubc.ca>


>> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
>> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
>> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
>> start.

Toph Marshall, 39, Vancouver Canada.
CT since the early 80s, though currently enjoying a homebrew fusion  
of CT and Spirit of the Century, for which we have an irregular game. 

From cmdrx at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  1 09:30:48 2008
From: cmdrx at yahoo.com (Bill Prankard)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] A census
Message-ID: <424782.61068.qm@web65516.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

"Commander X"

aka William R. Pranakrd IV
Current Age: A couple of months shy of 38
Currently Residence: A small town outside
Fayetteville, NC and desperately seeking to return to
Central Florida
Been Playing since: Mid-80s starting with CT

Introduced to Traveller about the same time I was
introduced to AD&D in the mid 80s while in High
School. Moved on to 2300AD and MegaTrav in college.
The 90s were an especialy heavy gaming time for me as
I would go to conventions and live with roomates who
were gamers.  Traveller was lightly played even though
I continued to snatch up anything TNE and then T4. The
late 90s was when I started to contribute to the game
through playtesting and contributing some of my own
gearheadedness to the T4 line.  When T4 ended, I moved
on to GT helping design weapons and other modules for
the Starships book and a few evil man portable
plasma/fusion weapons on the side.  I contributed the
write-up for X-TEK to BITS for their 101 Corporations
and a few ideas for 101 Religeons.  I was a regular on
#traveller IRC and even ran a few games there.

After 2001, I fell on some hard times that I still
have yet to get out of so Traveller fell on the back
burner. I did manage to get into T20 and help produce
Traveller's Aide #7: Fighting Ships of the Solomani
Rim War.  There's was also to be a book showing the
Solomani ships of that era that has yet to be
published.  This was my last contribution.

I am leery of T5 and when MGT anounced they were going
to be T5 "lite" I ignored it.  I downloaded the
playtest draft and at first I didn't think much of it.
Knowing me, I went to the ship design system first and
when I saw it was Book 2, not my favorite system way
too limited, I ho-hummed it.  Character creation did
get my attention.  Classic style, with life events! I
looked at ship building again and realised they fixed
a few things.  I fiddled with it and saw it works
better than Book 2, but I still can't wait to see how
they do HG.

I don't realy have a favorite flavor, seeming how I
played them all.  Each had their strengths and
weaknesses and each one fit with the time period they
were produced in.  Not too happy with Imperium
Games/T4, and it had potential with the differing
Milleu.  TNE was a gearhead's paradise.  FF&S was the
best thing since HG. GURPS has its strengths and
weaknesses.  T20 isn't bad once you get over the "7th
Level Scout" thing and I especialy liked the HG style
ship design system.  But now we got Mongoose, which is
like Classic kicked up a notch.  Yes it has some
issues (power alocation for ships, personal armour too
light, weapons too strong) all of which I hope will be
addressed in the suppliment books.

I did start runing a face to face game using MGT's
playtest draft.  It was set during the GT timeline
(1120 alt) 10 years after the 5th FW.  I placed it in
Aramis subsector using the Traveller Adventure as a
sourcebook.  The idea was to create a kind of "Return
to..." adventure that's been going on lately in the
D&D world. But with our retail world schedules, it has
been a  rare event.  We play when we can.


      

From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Sun Jun  1 10:16:17 2008
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 10:16:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Interesting Site
In-Reply-To: <48425555.8030700@bellsouth.net>
References: <48425555.8030700@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <32F9F680-35A5-4948-A777-955AB6020218@travellercentral.com>


On Jun 1, 2008, at 1:52 AM, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> I ran across this site that has a bunch of game sessions saved
> as mp3's.
>
> http://www.rpgmp3.com/
>
> Down near the bottom there is a Traveller game: Session 1
> where they roll up characters and the game is explained to
> them and Session 2 where they play a bit. I got a kick
> listening to them. :)


I started taping my End of Days games, and Traveller is slated to be  
next.  There are several digital recorders with lots of record time  
that support common sound file formats.

From rpg at uwclub.net  Sun Jun  1 10:22:12 2008
From: rpg at uwclub.net (rpg)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:22:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <79AE950D-886B-4C02-BE70-70548ACE2935@interchange.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <FDEJIKEFGFKGBJMGEICECEANDMAA.rpg@uwclub.net>


>> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
>> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
>> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
>> start.

Mike Kanssen, 44, North Essex, UK
Started with CT in 78 then added Striker (for Civilian Vehicles & the combat
system) & later merged in MT. I've only been a player in one short campaign,
but GMed several campaigns till the early 90s. More recently I have run a
Rolemaster campagin, which pettered out about the time my second child was
born. (My wife played in the rolemaster campaign for a while but decided she
didn't really like roleplaying).
When real life allows (v rarely) I'm working out a SF campaign to run with
Prism rules, (Combat system TBD) in a home built universe based roughly on
our sector of the real one and stuff from numerous RPGs. Most of the
equipment will be from Traveller in one version or another. I'd like come up
with conversion factors (via BRTCs Guns, guns, guns?) so that I can use MT,
FFS1, FFS2, etc. as different cultures designs, to reflect different
solutions to the same problem...

! hope to start playing again in a couple of years when my eldest should be
ready to join in.
Meanwhile collecting Traveller stuff & reading TML takes any time I have
spare for roleplaying.


From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 06:45:05 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:45:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <20080601094202.GB13303@pieni.net>
References: <20080601073437.5ebaba18@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<C467D4AC.142A1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<20080601093513.225ab686@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<20080601094202.GB13303@pieni.net>
Message-ID: <20080601134505.3b52d8d7@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 12:42:02 +0300
Mikko Parviainen <pare at pieni.net> wrote:

Hello Mikko,

> Well, in my experience it makes it a bit more difficult to arrange
> game sessions. The usual tactic here nowadays is to take a weekday and
> game every other week or so. In that way even the people with families

I'd go for that, but don't know of any gamers in my area, which is
rural.  During the summer months in particular, people tend to be busy
in the fields.  But yes, a weekday game is a good idea as it means bed
at a sensible time.   :-)

> My wife is currently playing in more rpg campaigns than I am... I
> can't really call that a conspiracy. :)
 
Oh, I could.   :-))

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

An old custom to sell your daughter
Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 10:58:49 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:58:49 +0200
Subject: [TML] War rules
Message-ID: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>

I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it hit some
poor planet.
I started thinking about what would happen to the planet if some great ship
hit it, or even some little cargo ship that was loaded and had a long
vector.

So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what vectors were OK,
they would have to be vectors that, if the ship failed, would give people at
least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe less if aid was always in system. This
goes double for war ships and war. Say you are fight for or even against a
plant, loose ship control and then clash into the major city or really harm
the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it would be a war
crime to take such a vector in the first place.

-- 
Douglas E Knapp

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

From penguin_boy at mindspring.com  Sun Jun  1 11:09:46 2008
From: penguin_boy at mindspring.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:09:46 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <4842D7DA.1090208@mindspring.com>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on  
> the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite  
> flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll  
> start.

Douglas Berry, 41 (for another month), San Jose, CA

Favorite flavor? Mega or GURPS. Of course, I'm currently in love with 
Thousand Suns, which is one reason I've not be overly active here.

No current game, working on a 1KS game.



From garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net  Sun Jun  1 11:13:51 2008
From: garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net (Garry Ward)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:13:51 -0400
Subject: [TML] War rules
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com>
To: "The Traveller Mailing List" <tml at travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:58 PM
Subject: [TML] War rules


>I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it hit some
> poor planet.
> I started thinking about what would happen to the planet if some great 
> ship
> hit it, or even some little cargo ship that was loaded and had a long
> vector.
>
> So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what vectors were 
> OK,
> they would have to be vectors that, if the ship failed, would give people 
> at
> least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe less if aid was always in system. This
> goes double for war ships and war. Say you are fight for or even against a
> plant, loose ship control and then clash into the major city or really 
> harm
> the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it would be a 
> war
> crime to take such a vector in the first place.

Don't know about a war crime, but certainly an act of war.

Also, I'd prefer ships be required to follow a vector such that, without a 
proper, successfull final braking manuver, would cause the ship to hit the 
atmosphere at an angle such that it would bounce off rather and enter it.

Garry


>
> -- 
> Douglas E Knapp
>
> 1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
> men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
> on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
> The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
> of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
> and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
> As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
> in their labor.
>
> 2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
> striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
> This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
> condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
> ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
> of inhumanity.
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
> 



From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 11:41:11 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:41:11 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <001801c8c3d6$ec10c9c0$c4325d40$@com>
Message-ID: <C4685777.142BB%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 7:02 AM, "Hemdian" <hemdian at trisen.com> wrote:

> Peter Trevor, 4 ... er ... classified, London (Wembley), MT rules (plus
> houserules) in CT era, Started RPGs in 1980 and Traveller since 1981 ... No
> current game ... had a long term group recently fold but that's freed up
> more time to work on a backlog of Traveller projects (like Universe 2).
> 
> <http://sol.trisen.com>

Universe 2?  What that then?


From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 12:00:58 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:00:58 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <FDEJIKEFGFKGBJMGEICECEANDMAA.rpg@uwclub.net>
Message-ID: <C4685C1A.142BD%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 12:22 PM, "rpg" <rpg at uwclub.net> wrote:

> I'd like come up
> with conversion factors (via BRTCs Guns, guns, guns?) so that I can use MT,
> FFS1, FFS2, etc. as different cultures designs, to reflect different
> solutions to the same problem...

Hmm.  If they all represent what physics allows, they all should allow the
same designs.  Cultural things seem like they'd mainly limit what actually
gets done, not what's possible.

And honestly, what "different solutions" are there?  :)

(p.s. MT had a design system?)


From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 12:12:23 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:12:23 -0400
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
Message-ID: <C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 1:13 PM, "Garry Ward" <garry.e.ward at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> From: "Knapp" <magick.crow at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:58 PM
> 
>> I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it hit some
>> poor planet.
>> I started thinking about what would happen to the planet if some great
>> ship
>> hit it, or even some little cargo ship that was loaded and had a long
>> vector.
>> 
>> So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what vectors were
>> OK,
>> they would have to be vectors that, if the ship failed, would give people
>> at
>> least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe less if aid was always in system. This
>> goes double for war ships and war. Say you are fight for or even against a
>> plant, loose ship control and then clash into the major city or really
>> harm
>> the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it would be a
>> war
>> crime to take such a vector in the first place.
> 
> Don't know about a war crime, but certainly an act of war.

Nope, not a war crime.  Many acts in war run the risk of causing damage to
infrastructure and killing civilians.  Hell, many acts are *intended* to do
so.  That's like saying it's a crime for bombers to fly over friendly
territory... they have to to get to enemy targets!  It's just one of the
risks of war.

> Also, I'd prefer ships be required to follow a vector such that, without a
> proper, successfull final braking manuver, would cause the ship to hit the
> atmosphere at an angle such that it would bounce off rather and enter it.

For civilian and/or peace-time activities, this is perfectly reasonably.
Although, given how small a target the atmospheric edge of a planet is, you
might as well just miss altogether and simply orbit past.

Then too, at *some* point you must being on a course that will take you
down.  That's the whole point of landing.  So such a "miss rule" would need
minimum speed and distance at which it counts.


From erisred at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  1 12:51:03 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:51:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
Message-ID: <4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census
> here on the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name,
> age,location, favorite flavor of Traveller and weather or
> not you have a current game. I'll start.

BTW, why doesn't everyone who is providing "census" 
information head on over to www.nearbygamers.com and add their 
name, location, and tags for Traveller and the TML?

Eris

From ateno at panix.com  Sun Jun  1 13:13:56 2008
From: ateno at panix.com (Eric A. Rhude)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 15:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML]  A census-
In-Reply-To: <4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1567.69.72.64.104.1212347636.squirrel@mail.panix.com>

> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census
> here on the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name,
> age,location, favorite flavor of Traveller and weather or
> not you have a current game. I'll start.

Eric Rhude
47 (today)
Eastern Long Island
Classic Traveller
I have a current ftf game, run one on line and participate in a couple more.



From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 13:20:31 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:20:31 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:51:03 -0500
Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hello Eris,

> BTW, why doesn't everyone who is providing "census" 
> information head on over to www.nearbygamers.com and add their 
> name, location, and tags for Traveller and the TML?

Because, until you mentioned it, I didn't know it existed.

Satisfied?   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

We don't give a damn
One Chord Wonders - The Adverts

From erisred at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  1 13:43:12 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:43:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>

Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:51:03 -0500
> Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Eris,
> 
>> BTW, why doesn't everyone who is providing "census" 
>> information head on over to www.nearbygamers.com and add their 
>> name, location, and tags for Traveller and the TML?
> 
> Because, until you mentioned it, I didn't know it existed.
> 
> Satisfied?   :-)

Not unless you acted on the suggestion, now that you know if 
it. ;-)

Eris

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 13:48:21 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:48:21 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20080601204821.3c7d2b4b@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:51:03 -0500
Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hello Eris,

> information head on over to www.nearbygamers.com and add their 
> name, location, and tags for Traveller and the TML?

Even worse;  I'm in the apparently gamer barren area of Devon.   :-(

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

If a thought came in your head it would die of loneliness
I Don't Like You - Stiff Little Fingers

From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 13:50:10 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:50:10 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <C46875B2.142C7%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 2:51 PM, "Eris Reddoch" <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> BTW, why doesn't everyone who is providing "census"
> information head on over to www.nearbygamers.com and add their
> name, location, and tags for Traveller and the TML?

Dunno about others, but I've been there for months.  :)


From rpg at uwclub.net  Sun Jun  1 14:07:44 2008
From: rpg at uwclub.net (rpg)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:07:44 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <C4685C1A.142BD%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FDEJIKEFGFKGBJMGEICEKEAPDMAA.rpg@uwclub.net>



>> I'd like come up
>> with conversion factors (via BRTCs Guns, guns, guns?) so that I can use
MT,
>> FFS1, FFS2, etc. as different cultures designs, to reflect different
>> solutions to the same problem...
>
>Hmm.  If they all represent what physics allows, they all should allow the
>same designs.  Cultural things seem like they'd mainly limit what actually
>gets done, not what's possible.

As many TML posts have pointed out many designs have absolutly no basis in
the limits of Physics!

>And honestly, what "different solutions" are there?  :)

Taking the internal combustion engine as an example I can imediatly think of
Spark ignition (gasoline) & compression ignition (Deisel)
Std Piston engines, Wankel rotary engines, turbines...

I'm quite sure other solutions exist but with the above understood we're not
researching alternatives too strongly.

>(p.s. MT had a design system?)

It did indeed (at least for vehicles) included in the Refree's manual, also
check out COACC for a more complete approach to aircraft.
Nowhere near as complete as FFS, and in my view it got overly complex in the
control systems, but still enough to turn me into a gearhead :-)


From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 14:15:04 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:15:04 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:43:12 -0500
Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hello Eris,

> Not unless you acted on the suggestion, now that you know if 
> it. ;-)

Usually, I don't go in for that sort of thing, but as you're so
persuasive....

Take a look at North Devon; UK, and you'll find, well, me.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

You don't entertain ideas you simply bore them
I Don't Like You - Stiff Little Fingers

From vraymond at iastate.edu  Sun Jun  1 14:14:00 2008
From: vraymond at iastate.edu (Victor Raymond)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:14:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080601151217.0a834bc8@iastate.edu>

At 02:23 PM 5/30/2008, you wrote:

>Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on
>the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite
>flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll
>start.

Victor Raymond, 45, Ames, Iowa (but also Minneapolis, MN and Madison, 
WI).  Favorite flavor of Traveller - CT or MT.  Don't have a current game.



Victor J Raymond
vraymond "at"  iastate.edu  
-------------- next part --------------


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From erisred at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  1 14:45:21 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:45:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>	<4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <48430A61.1070709@bellsouth.net>

Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:43:12 -0500
> Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Eris,
> 
>> Not unless you acted on the suggestion, now that you know if 
>> it. ;-)
> 
> Usually, I don't go in for that sort of thing, but as you're so
> persuasive....
> 
> Take a look at North Devon; UK, and you'll find, well, me.

Yeah, well, I'd have to know where North Devon was located in 
the UK first. ;)  Maybe if we encourage people we run into 
that play to add themselves you might yourself less lonely 
there someday.

Eris

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Sun Jun  1 14:57:37 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 21:57:37 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <48430A61.1070709@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<48430A61.1070709@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20080601215737.07a91c24@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:45:21 -0500
Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hello Eris,

> Yeah, well, I'd have to know where North Devon was located in 
> the UK first. ;)  Maybe if we encourage people we run into 

:-)

Apart from the stock answer of "GGIF" (Google is your Friend), it's on
the South West Peninsula;  Most westerly is Cornwall, then Devon.
Directly to the north is Wales, across the Bristol Channel.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

I'm not here for your entertainment
U & Ur Hand - Pink

From rboleyn at ihug.co.nz  Sun Jun  1 15:48:43 2008
From: rboleyn at ihug.co.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:48:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>
	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <4843193B.5030102@ihug.co.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote:
>  I hope this census is going to put some players together. So far I've
>  seen three players in NZ post here, more than the number of TMLers in
>  Montana.

Well, Kawerau and Auckland are a fair distance from Wellington, so 
probably not, and not that close to each other (200+ km between them, 
400+ km Wellington to Kawerau, ~650 km Wellington to Auckland). NZ's not 
very big, but it's long.



From erisred at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  1 16:12:37 2008
From: erisred at bellsouth.net (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:12:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <20080601215737.07a91c24@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>	<4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>	<20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>	<48430A61.1070709@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601215737.07a91c24@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <48431ED5.9040701@bellsouth.net>

Brad Rogers wrote:

> Apart from the stock answer of "GGIF" (Google is your Friend), it's on
> the South West Peninsula;  Most westerly is Cornwall, then Devon.
> Directly to the north is Wales, across the Bristol Channel.

Ah! I thought the whole peninsula was called Cornwall.

I figured Devon was on the west coast, somewhere, from books 
I've read, but just *where* has always been something of a 
mystery to me. :) I sort of figured further in where the 
peninsula meets the main body of England (but I see that's 
partly Somerset and partly Gloucestershire) or maybe north of 
Wales on the Irish sea (but that appears to be Lancashire), 
but no, it's out there on the peninsula with Cornwall. 
Interesting! But off subject... :)

Eris



From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 16:50:19 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:50:19 -0400
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <C4677E1E.14296%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F038B6B94@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>
	<C4677E1E.14296%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806011550mbc1938n88a00e921be73292@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Jerry W Barrington
<jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/31/08 7:42 PM, "Leon Wu" <Leon.Wu at newswire.ca> wrote:
>
>> What about the ship combat system in 2300? That always seemed pretty hard sci
>> to me.
>
> Although I own much of 2300, I've never actually played it, and only skimmed
> the ship combat stuff.  Honestly, I was far more interested in the star
> system generation rules.  :D

IIRC, it pretty much sucked to be a PC-type merchant ship in that
game.  Everything initially showed up on the combat map as a "black
globe."  This wasn't the Traveller shield device.  It was an indicator
that a probable target was in *that* general vicinity and had *this*
general heading, but had not yet been acquired sufficiently to allow
engagment.  If you were a civilian and waited for your passive sensors
to so acquire the target - and it was a hostile with better passive
sensors than you - you were likely toast.  If you lit up your active
sensors to acquire it - and it was hostile . . . you were toast.

It seemed to me that (in 2300) Ethically Challenged Merchants would be
constantly scheming to enlist the best sensors tech available and then
buy/borrow/steal him the best passive sensor suite possible.  This
would have put a rather different twist - I think - on the usual party
dynamics.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 17:35:43 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:35:43 -0400
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <C466596C.1425E%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <63CEFE50-6060-401C-A678-6049BF2B954D@ceecom.net>
	<C466596C.1425E%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806011635x5be032a5t29050dda102ff4f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Jerry W Barrington
<jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> And if we move to Texas, let's stay out of the western point.  It's almost a
> desert over there.  :)

But wouldn't that give us a perfect opportunity to practice life as it
would be lived at ~TL 8 on a marginally inhabitable world in the OTU?
:P

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 17:42:43 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 19:42:43 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census-
In-Reply-To: <1567.69.72.64.104.1212347636.squirrel@mail.panix.com>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
	<1567.69.72.64.104.1212347636.squirrel@mail.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806011642y1049c87eh16cb4252011064dd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Eric A. Rhude <ateno at panix.com> wrote:
>> Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census
>> here on the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name,
>> age,location, favorite flavor of Traveller and weather or
>> not you have a current game. I'll start.
>
> Eric Rhude
> 47 (today)

Then . . . Happy Birthday!!  :-)

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From davebill at clear.net.nz  Sun Jun  1 17:43:43 2008
From: davebill at clear.net.nz (davebill)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:43:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] A census - New Zealand Travellers
References: <mailman.2611.1212306725.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <007301c8c441$53b5c980$0501a8c0@DAVID>

Tod Glenn said:

> I hope this census is going to put some players together.  So far I've
> seen three players in NZ post here, more than the number of TMLers in
> Montana.

You beat me to it, Tod :)

I was going to suggest to the Kiwis on this list that it might be an idea to 
set up a Yahoo group or similar to get us more in touch, with the aim of 
getting some games in, or at least swapping information. The idea for doing 
this as a separate group is to concentrate the message traffic (I get the 
digest of the TML and that's usually 50-60 messages a day, which is a lot to 
wade through) and make it more relevant to New Zealand players.

I'm quite happy to set a group up if there's any interest - perhaps if 
people want to e-mail me off list and we can go from there?

Regards

David



From gilson27 at mchsi.com  Sun Jun  1 17:46:59 2008
From: gilson27 at mchsi.com (Bob)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <3cf5ea650805311754k319c581fj4a7cdd01322e8c0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000601c8c32c$67679c80$0201a8c0@sinwalk>	<000e01c8c332$de6b8a70$0202a8c0@ziusudra>	<623361497.20080531104049@gmail.com>
	<3cf5ea650805311754k319c581fj4a7cdd01322e8c0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <484334F3.5090308@mchsi.com>

Name:Bob Gilson
Age: 44
Location: Dubuque, Iowa 
Favorite Traveller: CT and GT 
Current Games: None sadly


From davebill at clear.net.nz  Sun Jun  1 17:47:22 2008
From: davebill at clear.net.nz (davebill)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:47:22 +1200
Subject: [TML] Census
Message-ID: <007f01c8c441$d6a51300$0501a8c0@DAVID>

Thanks for proposing the census, Evyn. It has been very interesting reading the responses. I hope you do tabulate the results as the gut feeling I get is that most of the responders are on the High Orbit side of forty, most haven't played for a while, and most like CT or MT. There seems a strong support base for MGT (which, to me, is refurbished CT - and that's not a problem, I like both) which, I think, will be healthy for the game going forward. 

I'm intrigued that TNE and T4 are mentioned rarely, if at all - I wonder if there's any links to sales figures of those two editions? Were they popular in their day, and then their players moved on, or were they unpopular, their players returned to MT or GT or whatever, and those editions died from lack of interest?

David

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 18:14:41 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:14:41 -0400
Subject: [TML] Census
In-Reply-To: <007f01c8c441$d6a51300$0501a8c0@DAVID>
References: <007f01c8c441$d6a51300$0501a8c0@DAVID>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806011714v5cd61e9cp321d729d1955b827@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:47 PM, davebill <davebill at clear.net.nz> wrote:
> I'm intrigued that TNE and T4 are mentioned rarely, if at all - I wonder if there's any links to sales figures of those two editions? Were they popular in their day, and then their players moved on, or were they unpopular, their players returned to MT or GT or whatever, and those editions died from lack of interest?

Oooooohhhhh . . . he references The Great Schism . . . Beware!

[It made me give up Traveller altogether]


-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From domhanai at juno.com  Sun Jun  1 18:31:43 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 00:31:43 GMT
Subject: [TML] A census
Message-ID: <20080601.173143.9930.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com>

Mike Keeran, 52 (5 terms Army, 3 terms educator); Kent, Washington (state)
CT is my first love, but I brutally & frequently mug GT, MT, TNE and any slow, stupid game system that turns its back on me. Nothing recent; using a solo game in MTU to develop a story line.
 
Cougashika - the other white meat
____________________________________________________________
Make your vacation more memorable with a luxurious vacation rental. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iiflWOVsYDTSHqrB25hj5kuxm7FDS9KaXJXLmBMhePTXdU9Yw/

From mole at travellercentral.com  Sun Jun  1 18:44:43 2008
From: mole at travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:44:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <20080601.173143.9930.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080601.173143.9930.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <C6A27971-6E09-4C43-B625-1C1FCAACEDD8@travellercentral.com>


On Jun 2, 2008, at 12:31 AM, domhanai at juno.com wrote:

> Mike Keeran, 52 (5 terms Army, 3 terms educator); Kent, Washington  
> (state)
> CT is my first love, but I brutally & frequently mug GT, MT, TNE  
> and any slow, stupid game system that turns its back on me. Nothing  
> recent; using a solo game in MTU to develop a story line.

Kent... Not far from Longveiw
--
Mole




From shadow at shadowgard.com  Sun Jun  1 18:45:04 2008
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:45:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re:  War rules)
In-Reply-To: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 1 Jun 2008 at 18:58, Knapp wrote:

> I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it
> hit some poor planet. I started thinking about what would happen to
> the planet if some great ship hit it, or even some little cargo ship
> that was loaded and had a long vector. 


Rough rule of thumb. At 3 km/sec, a ship will impact with an energy 
of roughly the same mass of TNT. This goes up linearly with mass (ie 
ten times the mass is ten times the boom) and goes up as the *square* 
of the velocity (ie at ten times the velocity you get 100 times the 
boom).

So at 300 km/sec, a 100 ton *mass* (not 100 dT!) ship will impact 
with roughly one megaton of blast.

That's bad news near the impact point but not so nad even a dozen 
miles away (the fallout won't be radioactive unless the ship was 
carrying nukes).

But planets are big. And unless it's got an insane population density 
the odds of hitting anywhere important are low.

> So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what vectors were OK,
> they would have to be vectors that, if the ship failed, would give people at
> least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe less if aid was always in system. This
> goes double for war ships and war. Say you are fight for or even against a
> plant, loose ship control and then clash into the major city or really harm
> the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it would be a war
> crime to take such a vector in the first place.

I covered this several times over the years. This falls under the 
general responsibilities of "Space Traffic Control" or STC (much like 
ATC/Air Traffic Control here on Earth).

In wartime, all bets are off. Surving the battle is more important 
than where your ship might end up if you lose control.

Good examples are all the planes that crashed into cities *by 
accident) (ie loss of control or got shot down as opposed to kamikaze 
type stuff) during WWII. And all the antiaircraft fire that hit 
civilians. 

Classic example of that last is Pearl Harbor. A lot of the shells 
fired at the attacking planes weren't properly fused and landed in 
Honolulu. Nobody got in trouble for that.

In peacetime, you'll be given a course that does not intersect the 
planet (except on landing approach) or any other ships or space 
installation (unless preparing to dock).

This will include not merely your projected path under power, but 
also your path if you *lose* power at any point. 

The three weeks bit is totally silly as with normal Traveller drives, 
you can leave the star system in 3 weeks. 

In 3 weeks at one g you can travel almost 110 AU (without doing 
turnover). And you'll be travelling at 6% of c!!!

Anyway, STC will contact ships that come out of jump and are "near" 
the planet. If you emerge in the middle of nowhere (ie well away from 
any planet of station having significant space traffic), you may get 
hailed by system control and asked what you areplanning to do and if 
you need help.

If you are outside of any STC control center's area of operations, 
you'll be pretty much on your own. They'll ask for your intended 
destination and suggest where and when you should enter your 
destination's controlled flight area (if they have an STC).

If they don't (say a non-mainworld with some mining installations or 
the like) you'll probably just get given the unicom frequency(ies) 
for your destination and get fed an update on any local traffic 
hazards. (this is analogous to flying into a small airport or private 
field here in the states)

If you are heading for controlled space (or already in it, as some 
worlds may have controled zones that extend past their 100 diameter 
limit) you'll get assigned a transponder squawk and a channel to talk 
to STC on. 

You'll then get given some exacting course instructions on that 
channel once you are in or near the controlled area. 

If you follow the instructions, you'll likely not get contacted again 
until it's time to make a final approach to the station or planet. 
Unless of course, someone *else* screws up and you have to be re-
routed or dodge.

If you don't follow instructions, you'll get a warning or two (if you 
are at a relatively safe distance or vector). They you'll hear a 
"change course or be fired upon" by the local COAC (Close Orbit & 
Aerospace Command). And they *will* folow thru on it.

If you are too close and on a dangerous vector they'll go straight to 
the COAC warning. Or even skip that and start shooting if you are 
really close and on an intercept vector.

Unless you can prove equipment failure, your pilot may get his 
license jerked. Likewise, the Captian (if he wasn't the one piloting) 
may have his Master's papers at risk.

And if it was equipment failure, the Captain will have to answer. Not 
sure if they'd go after the chief engineer as well or let the 
Captain/owner deal with that on their own.

STC is very serious about this. About as serious as airport security 
is about a bomb threat.

ps. I'd like to expand on this, so anybody with experience operating 
a plane or running ATC *especially* outside the US, please feel free 
to talk to me.

And I could use some illustrations to show controlled vs uncontolled 
space in a system and maybe some examples of good vs bad vectors.



--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From shadow at shadowgard.com  Sun Jun  1 18:45:04 2008
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:45:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <20080601102837.4e46d525@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <20080601073201.35352c17@abydos.stargate.org.uk>,
	<C467DB5C.142A5%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>,
	<20080601102837.4e46d525@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4842E020.27183.32163C3F@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 1 Jun 2008 at 10:28, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:51:40 -0400
> Jerry W Barrington <jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Jerry,
> 
> > On 6/1/08 2:32 AM, "Brad Rogers" <brad at fineby.me.uk> wrote:
> > > Oh yes you can;  You just won't locate them with any certainty.
> > No, uncertainty is Heisenberg's shtick.  Schr?dinger's is quantum
> 
> Really?  Are you sure?   :-)

Actually, the Schr?dinger bit is due to Heisenberg's bit. Or vice 
versa. It's *all* part and parcel of the nature of quantum effects.


--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From penguin_boy at mindspring.com  Sun Jun  1 18:58:46 2008
From: penguin_boy at mindspring.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:58:46 -0700
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20080530163756.01b7d980@pop.efn.org>
References: <C46533CA.141F1%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>	<63CEFE50-6060-401C-A678-6049BF2B954D@ceecom.net>	<889263490805301145k5381ea2if955bf7e162860b7@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20080530163756.01b7d980@pop.efn.org>
Message-ID: <484345C6.9070605@mindspring.com>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> At 11:45 AM 5/30/2008, halfjack wrote:
>> There's a loud apparent majority of about six posters here that drive
>> (and stifle) discussion in the same ruts as it has always travelled
>> here.
> 
> The irony being that these six loudest posters are NOT the same names I 
> recognize and remember reading, back in the day...

Deadhead syndrome. The band was always better five years ago.

I'm not posting much anymore for a variety of reasons. Done to death 
topics, Traveller burnout, working on my fiction.

Doug Berry
Writer of stuff.



From domhanai at juno.com  Sun Jun  1 19:07:19 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 01:07:19 GMT
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
Message-ID: <20080601.180719.9930.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com>

1. Do what makes the players happy.
2. Do what you want (or makes you happy).
 
Within these two principles rest all the laws and the prophets (profits?).
 
Cougashika - no, you can't have a meson Derringer
____________________________________________________________
Click now to choose from thousands of designs for your checks!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifWifsId4yW4J1adcptn22VxnCI3Ek6IWsPH5vgAm2g40KtW/

From lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  1 19:46:49 2008
From: lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 18:46:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Here's Another Site With Traveller Related Imagery
Message-ID: <609983.36112.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=284188


      

From ross.winn at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 20:31:58 2008
From: ross.winn at gmail.com (Ross Winn)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 22:31:58 -0400
Subject: [TML] Census
Message-ID: <48435b90.2387460a.4850.ffffdf44@mx.google.com>

The reason no one mentions it is that the New Era was a cruel hoax.

Ross Winn

From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 21:16:26 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:16:26 -0400
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50806011550mbc1938n88a00e921be73292@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C468DE4A.142E4%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 6:50 PM, "Richard Aiken" <raikenclw at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Jerry W Barrington
> <jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/31/08 7:42 PM, "Leon Wu" <Leon.Wu at newswire.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> What about the ship combat system in 2300? That always seemed pretty hard
>>> sci
>>> to me.
>> 
>> Although I own much of 2300, I've never actually played it, and only skimmed
>> the ship combat stuff.  Honestly, I was far more interested in the star
>> system generation rules.  :D
> 
> IIRC, it pretty much sucked to be a PC-type merchant ship in that
> game.  Everything initially showed up on the combat map as a "black
> globe."  This wasn't the Traveller shield device.  It was an indicator
> that a probable target was in *that* general vicinity and had *this*
> general heading, but had not yet been acquired sufficiently to allow
> engagment.  If you were a civilian and waited for your passive sensors
> to so acquire the target - and it was a hostile with better passive
> sensors than you - you were likely toast.  If you lit up your active
> sensors to acquire it - and it was hostile . . . you were toast.

Seems to me, that in general, whether you light up active or not, a civilian
against a hostile is generally toast.  That doesn't seem to have anything to
do with the rule system.

> It seemed to me that (in 2300) Ethically Challenged Merchants would be
> constantly scheming to enlist the best sensors tech available and then
> buy/borrow/steal him the best passive sensor suite possible.  This
> would have put a rather different twist - I think - on the usual party
> dynamics.

Interesting thought.


From jerry.barrington at gmail.com  Sun Jun  1 21:24:21 2008
From: jerry.barrington at gmail.com (Jerry W Barrington)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:24:21 -0400
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50806011635x5be032a5t29050dda102ff4f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C468E025.142E6%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>

On 6/1/08 7:35 PM, "Richard Aiken" <raikenclw at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 1:25 AM, Jerry W Barrington
> <jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And if we move to Texas, let's stay out of the western point.  It's almost a
>> desert over there.  :)
> 
> But wouldn't that give us a perfect opportunity to practice life as it
> would be lived at ~TL 8 on a marginally inhabitable world in the OTU?
> :P

I'm sure it would... if I wanted to do such a fool thing.  (I like my AC!)


From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  1 21:52:26 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] Census
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2611.1212306725.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <474721.55769.qm@web42108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

   At some point, Evyn wrote:
   
  >Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on  
>the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite  
>flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll  
>start.


   
     Ken Murphy, professional framer, 46, fabulous Pearl MS (a suburb of the state capital, Jackson).
     I liked CT and Striker,and was halfway through my grafting of Striker's  mechanics onto CT when MT came out. With my Strikerization of CT prettymuch already done by MT, I switched to MT. I've since swerved more towards T4 with the tasks, but am still pretty-firmly MT based.
     Most Trav playing was done in the 80s and early 90s. I don't currently have a game going, but did try running a couple of games over the last couple of years for the local gang. 
     I am currently working on using 2300's star map as a basic for my non-canon Trav setting. Hopefully I'll get around to things at some point soon :)
    -Ken-


       

From domhanai at juno.com  Sun Jun  1 22:18:11 2008
From: domhanai at juno.com (domhanai at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 04:18:11 GMT
Subject: [TML] Ship's locker
Message-ID: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>

 On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Evyn MacDude <infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:

> Man you never know what you will find in the back corner of the
> locker...

 
On one of my PC taxis (some of my former players had no ship skills) the ship's locker had an uncanny ability of holding just what was needed by PCs if they "dug around hard enough." There was also always fresh flowers for the dining area table....
 
Cougashika - out to freak the straights

____________________________________________________________
Find solutions for your business. Click here and get it done now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iifXQ84mtqf1L5XKBg7F9JAUKu2YlLcaaXSIJolPVSN9HsC9G/

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 01:35:38 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:35:38 +0200
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
In-Reply-To: <4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:45 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:

> On 1 Jun 2008 at 18:58, Knapp wrote:
>
> > I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it
> > hit some poor planet. I started thinking about what would happen to
> > the planet if some great ship hit it, or even some little cargo ship
> > that was loaded and had a long vector.
>
>
> Rough rule of thumb. At 3 km/sec, a ship will impact with an energy
> of roughly the same mass of TNT. This goes up linearly with mass (ie
> ten times the mass is ten times the boom) and goes up as the *square*
> of the velocity (ie at ten times the velocity you get 100 times the
> boom).
>
> So at 300 km/sec, a 100 ton *mass* (not 100 dT!) ship will impact
> with roughly one megaton of blast.
>
> That's bad news near the impact point but not so nad even a dozen
> miles away (the fallout won't be radioactive unless the ship was
> carrying nukes).


You will have dust too and that can go from no problem to a long night or
climate change. This is a good example of a Legal vector VS one that is just
stupid. Really big war ships doing really high speeds can risk the whole
planet. I was also thinking about what would happen if, say two cargo ships
hit. The huge type with 100,000 cargo containers each. Now you have 200,000
cargo containers raining down on the planet. Obliviously a worst case
scenario. Perhaps cargo containers could have safety parachutes or
something. Even on Earth they are a large problem for boaters.


>
>
> But planets are big. And unless it's got an insane population density
> the odds of hitting anywhere important are low.


A nice big wave could do a lot of damage to coastal areas. Living in the USA
I could see thinking this way but living in Germany, I can't think of any
place that it would be OK to have a large, fast war ship fall.


> > So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what vectors were
> OK,
> > they would have to be vectors that, if the ship failed, would give people
> at
> > least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe less if aid was always in system. This
> > goes double for war ships and war. Say you are fight for or even against
> a
> > plant, loose ship control and then clash into the major city or really
> harm
> > the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it would be a
> war
> > crime to take such a vector in the first place.
>
> I covered this several times over the years. This falls under the
> general responsibilities of "Space Traffic Control" or STC (much like
> ATC/Air Traffic Control here on Earth).
>
> In wartime, all bets are off. Surving the battle is more important
> than where your ship might end up if you lose control.
>
> Good examples are all the planes that crashed into cities *by
> accident) (ie loss of control or got shot down as opposed to kamikaze
> type stuff) during WWII. And all the antiaircraft fire that hit
> civilians.
>
> Classic example of that last is Pearl Harbor. A lot of the shells
> fired at the attacking planes weren't properly fused and landed in
> Honolulu. Nobody got in trouble for that.
>
> In peacetime, you'll be given a course that does not intersect the
> planet (except on landing approach) or any other ships or space
> installation (unless preparing to dock).
>
> This will include not merely your projected path under power, but
> also your path if you *lose* power at any point.





>
> The three weeks bit is totally silly as with normal Traveller drives,
> you can leave the star system in 3 weeks.
>
> In 3 weeks at one g you can travel almost 110 AU (without doing
> turnover). And you'll be travelling at 6% of c!!!


You miss the point of 3 weeks. This is with the thinking that there is
nothing in system that can stop the disaster. Perhaps they were all shot
down or whatever. So that mean you must jump out of system, get help, return
and fix or tug the ship out of danger. It is the outside number.
Obliviously, if we are talking a tanker at a big spaceport that needs help
they will get in in hours if not minutes.



>
> Anyway, STC will contact ships that come out of jump and are "near"
> the planet. If you emerge in the middle of nowhere (ie well away from
> any planet of station having significant space traffic), you may get
> hailed by system control and asked what you areplanning to do and if
> you need help.
>
> If you are outside of any STC control center's area of operations,
> you'll be pretty much on your own. They'll ask for your intended
> destination and suggest where and when you should enter your
> destination's controlled flight area (if they have an STC).
>
> If they don't (say a non-mainworld with some mining installations or
> the like) you'll probably just get given the unicom frequency(ies)
> for your destination and get fed an update on any local traffic
> hazards. (this is analogous to flying into a small airport or private
> field here in the states)
>
> If you are heading for controlled space (or already in it, as some
> worlds may have controled zones that extend past their 100 diameter
> limit) you'll get assigned a transponder squawk and a channel to talk
> to STC on.
>
> You'll then get given some exacting course instructions on that
> channel once you are in or near the controlled area.
>
> If you follow the instructions, you'll likely not get contacted again
> until it's time to make a final approach to the station or planet.
> Unless of course, someone *else* screws up and you have to be re-
> routed or dodge.
>
> If you don't follow instructions, you'll get a warning or two (if you
> are at a relatively safe distance or vector). They you'll hear a
> "change course or be fired upon" by the local COAC (Close Orbit &
> Aerospace Command). And they *will* folow thru on it.
>
> If you are too close and on a dangerous vector they'll go straight to
> the COAC warning. Or even skip that and start shooting if you are
> really close and on an intercept vector.
>
> Unless you can prove equipment failure, your pilot may get his
> license jerked. Likewise, the Captian (if he wasn't the one piloting)
> may have his Master's papers at risk.
>
> And if it was equipment failure, the Captain will have to answer. Not
> sure if they'd go after the chief engineer as well or let the
> Captain/owner deal with that on their own.
>
> STC is very serious about this. About as serious as airport security
> is about a bomb threat.
>
> ps. I'd like to expand on this, so anybody with experience operating
> a plane or running ATC *especially* outside the US, please feel free
> to talk to me.
>
> And I could use some illustrations to show controlled vs uncontolled
> space in a system and maybe some examples of good vs bad vectors.
>
>
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>



-- 
Douglas E Knapp

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 01:43:19 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:43:19 +0200
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> Then too, at *some* point you must being on a course that will take you
> down.  That's the whole point of landing.  So such a "miss rule" would need
> minimum speed and distance at which it counts.
>

Exactly, at some point the vector is safe or at least as safe as it can be
but other vectors are death to the planet. It was said that they explosion
is small compared to the planet but that really depends on the vector.
Someone really large and well armored, thrusting at 6gs right at the planet
for a long distance so that they can drop bombs with minimum exposure might
really damage a planet. This would be a war crime. Other vectors fall into
the acceptable risk category.

-- 
Douglas E Knapp

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

From shadow at shadowgard.com  Mon Jun  2 05:52:10 2008
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 04:52:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>,
	<C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>,
	<f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 2 Jun 2008 at 9:43, Knapp wrote:

> > Then too, at *some* point you must being on a course that will take you
> > down.  That's the whole point of landing.  So such a "miss rule" would need
> > minimum speed and distance at which it counts.
> >
> 
> Exactly, at some point the vector is safe or at least as safe as it can be
> but other vectors are death to the planet. It was said that they explosion
> is small compared to the planet but that really depends on the vector.
> Someone really large and well armored, thrusting at 6gs right at the planet
> for a long distance so that they can drop bombs with minimum exposure might
> really damage a planet. This would be a war crime. Other vectors fall into
> the acceptable risk category.

Sorry, but no. Neither Dresden, the firebombimg raids on Tokyo nor 
even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes. Ditto for the German 
bombings of London. 

If it's carried out by a legitimate military force, and for a 
militarily justifiable reason (rather than just trying to 
demoralize/terrorize the civilian populace) it's *not* a war crime.

If it's carried out by a non-military force, it's an act of terrorism 
and *still* not a war crime.

Unl;ess the world is undefended, that ship is gonna be targetted by a 
lot of stuff. Even a few suicide ships trying to crash into it before 
it gets too close (if they can). 

If it gets busted into small pieces they'll mostly be destroyed 
before they hit the ground. If there are enough and they are moving 
fast enough, then the heat flash may cause some firestorms on the 
planet. Otherwise, it's just damage.

But frankly, there's no *reason* to attack a planet that way. Not 
when you can do just as well by launching well stealthed projectiles 
from AU away. Being in space, you don't have to worry about stuff 
like wind deflection and the other stuff that gives artillery 
headaches.

At 6 g, you can can reach 1% of c in 14 hours. Let's assume they 
detect the projectiles at 10 light seconds. That gives them less than 
17 minutes to do anything about them. And the ship that launched them 
hours or days before was never at any risk.

So why bother with the type of attack you gave above?

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From shadow at shadowgard.com  Mon Jun  2 05:52:11 2008
From: shadow at shadowgard.com (shadow at shadowgard.com)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 04:52:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
In-Reply-To: <f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>,
	<4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>,
	<f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48437C7B.30317.347B6379@shadow.shadowgard.com>

On 2 Jun 2008 at 9:35, Knapp wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:45 AM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 1 Jun 2008 at 18:58, Knapp wrote:
> >
> > > I was reading all that bit about what would happen to a ship if it
> > > hit some poor planet. I started thinking about what would happen to
> > > the planet if some great ship hit it, or even some little cargo ship
> > > that was loaded and had a long vector.
> >
> >
> > Rough rule of thumb. At 3 km/sec, a ship will impact with an energy
> > of roughly the same mass of TNT. This goes up linearly with mass (ie
> > ten times the mass is ten times the boom) and goes up as the *square*
> > of the velocity (ie at ten times the velocity you get 100 times the
> > boom).
> >
> > So at 300 km/sec, a 100 ton *mass* (not 100 dT!) ship will impact
> > with roughly one megaton of blast.
> >
> > That's bad news near the impact point but not so nad even a dozen
> > miles away (the fallout won't be radioactive unless the ship was
> > carrying nukes).
> 
> 
> You will have dust too and that can go from no problem to a long night or
> climate change. This is a good example of a Legal vector VS one that is just
> stupid.

It takes a *lot* to throw significant amounts of dust into the air. 
If there's air. :-)

> Really big war ships doing really high speeds can risk the whole
> planet. I was also thinking about what would happen if, say two cargo ships
> hit. The huge type with 100,000 cargo containers each. Now you have 200,000
> cargo containers raining down on the planet. Obliviously a worst case
> scenario. Perhaps cargo containers could have safety parachutes or
> something. Even on Earth they are a large problem for boaters.

Parachutes won't do a damn thing unless they are moving so slowly 
that they aren't a hazard anyway.

Besides. getting ships to collide in space is *hard*. And if they do, 
unless they have nearly the same vector, the pieces will be small 
enough to burn up.

> > But planets are big. And unless it's got an insane population density
> > the odds of hitting anywhere important are low.
> 
> A nice big wave could do a lot of damage to coastal areas.

Raising a significant wave takes a *lot* of energy. Many, many 
megatons, probably even gigatons.

> Living in the USA I could see thinking this way but living in
> Germany, I can't think of any place that it would be OK to have a
> large, fast war ship fall. 

Well, as I recall back in the Cold War days, someone *did* describe 
Germany as having towns about one megaton apart... :-)

Seriously, yes, you'll want to avoid ships hitting the planet. But 
even if they do, the damage in peacetime is apt to be strictly local. 
Hurricanes will do more damage. So will earthquakes.

But the simple fact is that Germany and other densely populated areas 
cover a small *fraction* of the globe.

Heck, you'd probably do far more damage if something hit in the 
"Boston-Washington corridor" (a strip of the East coast that is 
pretty much solid urban area for several hundred miles).

>>> So if I lived on that planet I would have rules about what
>>> vectors were OK, they would have to be vectors that, if the ship
>>> failed, would give people at least 3 weeks go find aid or maybe
>>> less if aid was always in system. This goes double for war ships
>>> and war. Say you are fight for or even against a plant, loose
>>> ship control and then clash into the major city or really harm
>>> the planet. What good is the fight then? Seems to be that it
>>> would be a war crime to take such a vector in the first place.  

Added note. No reasonable or even *unreasonable* ship impact is going 
to "harm the planet". It may cause a lot of damage even cause some 
long term problems with the ecosystem, but the planet is not going to 
be appreciably damaged.

> > The three weeks bit is totally silly as with normal Traveller drives,
> > you can leave the star system in 3 weeks.
> >
> > In 3 weeks at one g you can travel almost 110 AU (without doing
> > turnover). And you'll be travelling at 6% of c!!!
> 
> You miss the point of 3 weeks. This is with the thinking that there is
> nothing in system that can stop the disaster. Perhaps they were all shot
> down or whatever. So that mean you must jump out of system, get help, return
> and fix or tug the ship out of danger. It is the outside number.
> Obliviously, if we are talking a tanker at a big spaceport that needs help
> they will get in in hours if not minutes.

Sorry, but again you are asking the *impossible*. I'm pointing out 
that there's absolutely no way that such a 3 week rules is practical. 
It's probably not even *possible*.

Any ship that's close enough to the planet to be defending it against 
ships attacking after jumping in at the 100 diameter limit *cannot* 
have a vector that might intercept the planet *and* won't won't do so 
in less than 3 weeks.

You have to keep in mind that at typical Traveller velocities the 
ships *aren't* going to get pulled into the planet unless their 
course is already pointing almost directly at it. They are *far* 
above escape velocity.

And saying that the defenders can't use vectors that might intercept 
the planet means that they are crippled in both defense and offense. 

Nobody will abide by rules that will make them lose. Esecially if the 
other side may start orbital bombardment to force the planet to 
surrender once they've gained control of the space around it.

Consider the fact that various military targets (not military 
*installations*, but legitimate military targets) are *still* close 
enough to major population centers to cause major civilian casualties 
if there was a nuclear attack. And this is after 50+ years.

Heck, many of them started out *away* from cities and the cities 
expanded towards them.



--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com



From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 06:08:02 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:08:02 +0200
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com>
	<48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580806020508w10a69181o6f72466ae0d623ac@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:52 PM, <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:

> On 2 Jun 2008 at 9:43, Knapp wrote:
>
> > > Then too, at *some* point you must being on a course that will take you
> > > down.  That's the whole point of landing.  So such a "miss rule" would
> need
> > > minimum speed and distance at which it counts.
> > >
> >
> > Exactly, at some point the vector is safe or at least as safe as it can
> be
> > but other vectors are death to the planet. It was said that they
> explosion
> > is small compared to the planet but that really depends on the vector.
> > Someone really large and well armored, thrusting at 6gs right at the
> planet
> > for a long distance so that they can drop bombs with minimum exposure
> might
> > really damage a planet. This would be a war crime. Other vectors fall
> into
> > the acceptable risk category.
>
> Sorry, but no. Neither Dresden, the firebombimg raids on Tokyo nor
> even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes. Ditto for the German
> bombings of London.
>
> If it's carried out by a legitimate military force, and for a
> militarily justifiable reason (rather than just trying to
> demoralize/terrorize the civilian populace) it's *not* a war crime.
>
> If it's carried out by a non-military force, it's an act of terrorism
> and *still* not a war crime.
>
> Unl;ess the world is undefended, that ship is gonna be targetted by a
> lot of stuff. Even a few suicide ships trying to crash into it before
> it gets too close (if they can).
>
> If it gets busted into small pieces they'll mostly be destroyed
> before they hit the ground. If there are enough and they are moving
> fast enough, then the heat flash may cause some firestorms on the
> planet. Otherwise, it's just damage.
>
> But frankly, there's no *reason* to attack a planet that way. Not
> when you can do just as well by launching well stealthed projectiles
> from AU away. Being in space, you don't have to worry about stuff
> like wind deflection and the other stuff that gives artillery
> headaches.
>
> At 6 g, you can can reach 1% of c in 14 hours. Let's assume they
> detect the projectiles at 10 light seconds. That gives them less than
> 17 minutes to do anything about them. And the ship that launched them
> hours or days before was never at any risk.
>
> So why bother with the type of attack you gave above?
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com


Wikipedia war crimes:
War crimes are defined in the statute that established the International
Criminal Court, which includes: Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions,
such as:

>
>    1.
>       1. Willful killing, or causing great suffering or serious injury to
>       body or health
>
> Wrong vectors could come here.

>
>    1.
>       1.
>       2. Torture <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture> or inhumane
>       treatment
>       3. Unlawful wanton destruction or appropriation of property
>
> Or here

>
>    1.
>       1.
>       2. Forcing a prisoner of war<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war>to serve in the forces of a hostile power
>       3. Depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trial>
>       4. Unlawful deportation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation>,
>       confinement or transfer<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer>
>       5. Taking hostages <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage>
>    2. The following acts as part of an international conflict:
>       1. Directing attacks against civilians
>       2. Directing attacks against humanitarian<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian>workers or
>       UN <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN> peacekeepers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeper>
>       3. Killing a surrendered combatant
>       4. Misusing a flag of truce
>       5. Settlement of occupied territory
>       6. Deportation of inhabitants of occupied territory
>       7. Using poison weapons
>
> It could be an expansion of this idea.

>
>    1.
>       1.
>       2. Using civilians as shields
>       3. Using child soldiers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children>
>    2. The following acts as part of a non-international conflict:
>       1. Murder <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder>, cruel or degrading
>       treatment and torture
>       2. Directing attacks against civilians, humanitarian workers or UN
>       peacekeepers
>
> Might fall here too depending on how you look at it.

>
>    1.
>       1.
>       2. Taking hostages
>       3. Summary execution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution>
>       4. Pillage <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting>
>       5. Rape <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape>, sexual slavery<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery>,
>       forced prostitution or forced pregnancy
>
>

-- 
Douglas E Knapp

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

From dracous at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 06:17:02 2008
From: dracous at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:17:02 +1000
Subject: [TML] Census
In-Reply-To: <007f01c8c441$d6a51300$0501a8c0@DAVID>
Message-ID: <DCA9421001C04D49B1581CDFD101D83F@harris>

Paul Harris
40
Tasmania
No Favourites
Currently GM'ing two games (MT and T20), burt I am about to give t he new
Mongoose system a run with my MT group. 

I have been a lurker in the TML since the late 90's. Just returned. Carry on
gentlemen. I like to watch. 


From brad at fineby.me.uk  Mon Jun  2 05:53:53 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:53:53 +0100
Subject: [TML] Ship's locker
In-Reply-To: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20080602125353.067767f6@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 04:18:11 GMT
"domhanai at juno.com" <domhanai at juno.com> wrote:

Hello domhanai at juno.com,

> the ship's locker had an uncanny ability of holding just what was
> needed by PCs if they "dug around hard enough." There was also always

Sounds to me as though somebody's transported a "pocket of many things"
from the Toons RPG.  :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

I don't believe you have to be an idiot to get somewhere these days
Bombsite Boy - The Adverts

From brad at fineby.me.uk  Mon Jun  2 05:49:41 2008
From: brad at fineby.me.uk (Brad Rogers)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:49:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] A census (Kris Miller)
In-Reply-To: <48431ED5.9040701@bellsouth.net>
References: <54126.1212314345@3rd-imperium.com>
	<4842EF97.8070205@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601202031.524ef268@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<4842FBD0.8050105@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601211504.57c536e1@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<48430A61.1070709@bellsouth.net>
	<20080601215737.07a91c24@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
	<48431ED5.9040701@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <20080602124941.40253797@abydos.stargate.org.uk>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:12:37 -0500
Eris Reddoch <erisred at bellsouth.net> wrote:

Hello Eris,

> but no, it's out there on the peninsula with Cornwall. 
> Interesting! But off subject... :)

Well, depends on how much you like geography.   :-)

But OT, yes.

-- 
 Regards  _
         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"

Walking through town is quite scary
I Predict A Riot - Kaiser Chiefs

From magick.crow at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 06:27:20 2008
From: magick.crow at gmail.com (Knapp)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:27:20 +0200
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
In-Reply-To: <48437C7B.30317.347B6379@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>
	<48437C7B.30317.347B6379@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <f495db580806020527q27445a9fuaed95cb61413dafb@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Besides. getting ships to collide in space is *hard*. And if they do,
> unless they have nearly the same vector, the pieces will be small
> enough to burn up.


You missed the type of ship. Sure the ship might burn up the the boxes might
not, they are mounted on the outside of the ship and can come off in one
piece.



>
> > > But planets are big. And unless it's got an insane population density
> > > the odds of hitting anywhere important are low.
> >
> > A nice big wave could do a lot of damage to coastal areas.
>
> Raising a significant wave takes a *lot* of energy. Many, many
> megatons, probably even gigatons.


Depending on the gravity and also how close the crash is to the area in
question.

Seriously, yes, you'll want to avoid ships hitting the planet. But
> even if they do, the damage in peacetime is apt to be strictly local.
> Hurricanes will do more damage. So will earthquakes.


Depending on the vector sure, it could be.


> Added note. No reasonable or even *unreasonable* ship impact is going
> to "harm the planet". It may cause a lot of damage even cause some
> long term problems with the ecosystem, but the planet is not going to
> be appreciably damaged.


If by that you mean make a rock no longer a rock sure but if we are talking
change the biosphere, it could.


> Any ship that's close enough to the planet to be defending it against
> ships attacking after jumping in at the 100 diameter limit *cannot*
> have a vector that might intercept the planet *and* won't won't do so
> in less than 3 weeks.


What?


>
> You have to keep in mind that at typical Traveller velocities the
> ships *aren't* going to get pulled into the planet unless their
> course is already pointing almost directly at it. They are *far*
> above escape velocity.


We are not talking about vectors that can't harm the planet.


> And saying that the defenders can't use vectors that might intercept
> the planet means that they are crippled in both defense and offense.


Not vectors that can't intercept the planet but vectors that if they do
intercept the planet will do great harm.


>
> Nobody will abide by rules that will make them lose. Esecially if the
> other side may start orbital bombardment to force the planet to
> surrender once they've gained control of the space around it.


Winner writes the history as always.


>
>
> Consider the fact that various military targets (not military
> *installations*, but legitimate military targets) are *still* close
> enough to major population centers to cause major civilian casualties
> if there was a nuclear attack. And this is after 50+ years.


I can't say that I think nuclear warfare is sane or not a war crime but the
users so far have been the enforces thus all is deemed OK.

>
>
> Heck, many of them started out *away* from cities and the cities
> expanded towards them.
>

People do endless stupid things. I wonder how long we will get away with it?


>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
> shadow at shadowgard dot com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TML mailing list
> TML at travellercentral.com
> http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml
>



-- 
Douglas E Knapp

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand
men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss
on the people and a drain on the resources of the State.
The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces
of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad,
and men will drop down exhausted on the highways.
As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded
in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.

From dracous at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 06:27:37 2008
From: dracous at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 22:27:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Census
In-Reply-To: <48435b90.2387460a.4850.ffffdf44@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CE64DB11A1584598A6DE55B59C8F3510@harris>

I really am laughing now. Thanks Ross :)

(I actually really liked TNE, except the autofire rules)

Dracous
 
 
> 
> The reason no one mentions it is that the New Era was a cruel hoax.
> 
> Ross Winn


From jonathon.dyer at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 06:29:49 2008
From: jonathon.dyer at gmail.com (Jonathon Dyer)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:59:49 +0930
Subject: [TML] A census
Message-ID: <59804ab60806020529x415abde7g5e29ffd6c93cab35@mail.gmail.com>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Well it has been quite sometime since we have
> done a Census here on the Old TML. I think it is
> time. So Name, age,location, favorite flavor of
> Traveller and weather or not you have a current
> game.
>

Jonathon (JD); 41 for just over a month - finding  it harder adjust to than
40.

Adelaide, South Australia.

CT for preference, although I like elements of most of the other editions.

Haven't had an active game on for a little over twenty years, but in the
last three or so years I've picked up a full set of the LBB reprints and
some other bits and pieces, so mostly playing catch-up since then.

I fell in with a weekly RPGing group who have catholic views when it comes
to what they'll play.  Anyone can put their hand up to run pretty much
anything.  I let slip that my copy of the RTT core book is due to arrive in
a week or two, so they're on my back to run something in the next couple of
months.  My GMing cobwebs have cobwebs.

*Mission on Mithril*, anyone?

From bewiththecat at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 06:59:33 2008
From: bewiththecat at yahoo.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 05:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2475.1212191911.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <321479.98694.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Message: 40
Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 12:23:09 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude &lt;infojunky at ceecom.net&gt;
Subject: [TML] A census
To: The Traveller Mailing List &lt;tml at travellercentral.com&gt;
Message-ID: &lt;073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8 at ceecom.net&gt;
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	delsp=yes;	format=flowed

Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on  
the Old TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite  
flavor of Traveller and weather or not you have a current game. I'll  
start.

Bruce Johnson (not that one, a different Bruce Johnson).
39 years young.
Expatriated American living in Beijing, China.
CT is my favorite, but I have and enjoy reading other versions.
No current game.  Not many RPers here unfortunately.
But I still enjoy making ships and deckplans in my free time :)




      

From Leon.Wu at newswire.ca  Mon Jun  2 07:21:51 2008
From: Leon.Wu at newswire.ca (Leon Wu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:21:51 -0400
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
In-Reply-To: <f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com><4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<f495db580806020035v2a1edb94i8109b911410ac2a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC36C6@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Knapp
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 3:36 AM
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
> 
> You will have dust too and that can go from no problem to a 
> long night or climate change. This is a good example of a 
> Legal vector VS one that is just stupid. Really big war ships 
> doing really high speeds can risk the whole planet. I was 
> also thinking about what would happen if, say two cargo ships 
> hit. The huge type with 100,000 cargo containers each. Now 
> you have 200,000 cargo containers raining down on the planet. 
> Obliviously a worst case scenario. Perhaps cargo containers 
> could have safety parachutes or something. Even on Earth they 
> are a large problem for boaters.

I'd say that the planetary defense batteries get some target practice.

From Leon.Wu at newswire.ca  Mon Jun  2 07:27:38 2008
From: Leon.Wu at newswire.ca (Leon Wu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:27:38 -0400
Subject: [TML] Ship's locker
In-Reply-To: <20080602125353.067767f6@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
References: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
	<20080602125353.067767f6@abydos.stargate.org.uk>
Message-ID: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC36F0@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Brad Rogers
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 7:54 AM
> To: tml at travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Ship's locker
> 
> > the ship's locker had an uncanny ability of holding just what was 
> > needed by PCs if they "dug around hard enough." There was 
> also always
> 
> Sounds to me as though somebody's transported a "pocket of 
> many things"
> from the Toons RPG.  :-)

Or the "trenchcoat effect" schtick from "Tales from the Floating
Vagabond"

From peter at berghold.net  Mon Jun  2 07:36:28 2008
From: peter at berghold.net (Peter L. Berghold)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:36:28 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
References: <073E33DA-3A71-477C-A2C8-A52F89A36AB8@ceecom.net>
Message-ID: <4843F75C.1070901@berghold.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1





Peter L. Berghold, Tinton Falls, NJ
Currently not playing Traveller due to a) time constraints and b) nobody
around (besides immature kids) to play with. My preference is a loose
adherence to MegaTraveller and earlier versions of Traveller.

The last campaign that I ran was totally non-cannon and the Traveller
materials were used mostly as a set of rules and a backbone to the game.
My universe as a result of a diaspora of sleeper ships leaving Terra to
help alleviate population issues on Terra. After the sleepers arrived in
habitable worlds, the resultant populations worked their way back to
high tech.  In the mean time Terra solved its problems and it's tech
continued to evolve.  Add the existence of other sentient races already
"out there" there was much grist for adventure in my universe.




- --
Peter L. Berghold                       Unix Professional
Peter at Berghold.Net       AIM: redcowdawg YIM: blue_cowdawg
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIQ/dcUM9/01RIhaARAj8tAJ9/hO0pieH2LLlJhWNDIgnqCBV8uwCfTvoL
wsGD8yzTW4VFRGSfcNxtVAg=
=KWlx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From webmaster at travellercentral.com  Mon Jun  2 07:56:23 2008
From: webmaster at travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:56:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <4843193B.5030102@ihug.co.nz>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>
	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
	<4843193B.5030102@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <D4F20443-8815-45A3-A16C-D8A4B46BF632@travellercentral.com>


On Jun 1, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
>> I hope this census is going to put some players together. So far I've
>> seen three players in NZ post here, more than the number of TMLers in
>> Montana.
>
> Well, Kawerau and Auckland are a fair distance from Wellington, so
> probably not, and not that close to each other (200+ km between them,
> 400+ km Wellington to Kawerau, ~650 km Wellington to Auckland). NZ's  
> not
> very big, but it's long.

That doesn't seem very far.  Aren't you serious about Traveller?  :)

From Leon.Wu at newswire.ca  Mon Jun  2 08:00:40 2008
From: Leon.Wu at newswire.ca (Leon Wu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:00:40 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <D4F20443-8815-45A3-A16C-D8A4B46BF632@travellercentral.com>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main><DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com><4843193B.5030102@ihug.co.nz>
	<D4F20443-8815-45A3-A16C-D8A4B46BF632@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC3826@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:56 AM
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] A census
> 
> > Well, Kawerau and Auckland are a fair distance from Wellington, so 
> > probably not, and not that close to each other (200+ km 
> between them,
> > 400+ km Wellington to Kawerau, ~650 km Wellington to Auckland). NZ's
> > not
> > very big, but it's long.
> 
> That doesn't seem very far.  Aren't you serious about 
> Traveller?  :) _______________________________________________

Yeah, definately less than 100 diameters. There's simply no excuse.

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 08:19:37 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:19:37 -0400
Subject: [TML] Here's Another Site With Traveller Related Imagery
In-Reply-To: <609983.36112.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <609983.36112.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020719o2139d9b0iad5183a859d0ff99@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Leslie Bates
<lesbates_traveller at yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=284188

Did you notice that if he were to change his screen name by one
letter, it would be the ROM capital?

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From flowerpet56 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 08:21:29 2008
From: flowerpet56 at yahoo.com (JohnD)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2733.1212407509.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <108555.72502.qm@web55709.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Well, I'm 57. Last time i *played* was 12 yrs back or
so.
Last time onli8ne was 6 yrs back.

Last time character was near 20 ys back :)

Last time I've lied was 5 seconds ago (big, big grin).

Really its been a decade since I've played as a
player. Almost as much as a GM running a campaign. 
And now I've restarted a Campaign - Classic Rules set.
Bascially.
JohnD


      


From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 08:35:05 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:35:05 -0400
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <C468DE4A.142E4%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <5aca9be50806011550mbc1938n88a00e921be73292@mail.gmail.com>
	<C468DE4A.142E4%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020735u68d9e287l8591b24f843397bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Jerry W Barrington
<jerry.barrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems to me, that in general, whether you light up active or not, a civilian
> against a hostile is generally toast.  That doesn't seem to have anything to
> do with the rule system.

Correct.  If the hostile is a military-grade vessel.  But most pirates
(at least in Traveller) are barely-converted merchant ships.  Whether
or not this makes actual sense is another question.  In other
backgrounds - the Honorverse and the "Merchanter's Luck" books -
pirates are actually "rogue" warships of substantial tonnage.  But
that's another debate . . .

Against the typical Traveller pirate, the typical PC-crewed ship has a
decent chance at surviving and even winning the encounter.  But that's
because the sensors are more-or-less even.  In CT, they aren't an
issue at all (occuring in the background).  But in non-Traveller 2300,
the lack of a good sensor suite quickly kills you . . . if the pirate
managed to get his hands on a better one, that is.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From Leon.Wu at newswire.ca  Mon Jun  2 08:42:30 2008
From: Leon.Wu at newswire.ca (Leon Wu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:42:30 -0400
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50806020735u68d9e287l8591b24f843397bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5aca9be50806011550mbc1938n88a00e921be73292@mail.gmail.com><C468DE4A.142E4%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<5aca9be50806020735u68d9e287l8591b24f843397bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC39A6@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard Aiken
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:35 AM
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] Scientific realism
> 
> Correct.  If the hostile is a military-grade vessel.  But 
> most pirates (at least in Traveller) are barely-converted 
> merchant ships.  Whether or not this makes actual sense is 
> another question.  In other backgrounds - the Honorverse and 
> the "Merchanter's Luck" books - pirates are actually "rogue" 
> warships of substantial tonnage.  But that's another debate . . .
> 
> Against the typical Traveller pirate, the typical PC-crewed 
> ship has a decent chance at surviving and even winning the 
> encounter.  But that's because the sensors are more-or-less 
> even.  In CT, they aren't an issue at all (occuring in the 
> background).  But in non-Traveller 2300, the lack of a good 
> sensor suite quickly kills you . . . if the pirate managed to 
> get his hands on a better one, that is.

If the PC's manage to pick up a missile or two, these could be used as
sensor drones. If hostile then *blammo*, if not then you recover the
missile. Don't remember how expensive or difficult to acquire 2nd line
missiles were. Then again, the pirate's probably doing the same thing...

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 09:12:23 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:12:23 -0400
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02>
	<C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com>
	<48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020812i44ffcca5i3288ed21ed6daaf0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:52 AM,  <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> At 6 g, you can can reach 1% of c in 14 hours. Let's assume they
> detect the projectiles at 10 light seconds. That gives them less than
> 17 minutes to do anything about them. And the ship that launched them
> hours or days before was never at any risk.

I think I see another Near-C Rocks debate looming . . .

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From Leon.Wu at newswire.ca  Mon Jun  2 09:14:54 2008
From: Leon.Wu at newswire.ca (Leon Wu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:14:54 -0400
Subject: [TML] War rules
In-Reply-To: <5aca9be50806020812i44ffcca5i3288ed21ed6daaf0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002b01c8c40a$dffff5f0$ba2b4b0c@YOURFEDDA97C02><C4685EC7.142BF%jerry.barrington@gmail.com><f495db580806020043h3a6789b0u9a7c70aac1af74db@mail.gmail.com><48437C7A.11770.347B609A@shadow.shadowgard.com>
	<5aca9be50806020812i44ffcca5i3288ed21ed6daaf0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC3ADF@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tml-bounces at travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:tml-bounces at travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard Aiken
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 11:12 AM
> To: The Traveller Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [TML] War rules
> 
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:52 AM,  <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> > At 6 g, you can can reach 1% of c in 14 hours. Let's assume they 
> > detect the projectiles at 10 light seconds. That gives them 
> less than
> > 17 minutes to do anything about them. And the ship that 
> launched them 
> > hours or days before was never at any risk.
> 
> I think I see another Near-C Rocks debate looming . . .

Which means Aslan in comfortable footwear can't be far behind...

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 09:24:18 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:24:18 -0400
Subject: [TML] Space Traffic Control (was Re: War rules)
In-Reply-To: <4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
References: <f495db580806010958p1678acfdx47a05fcceef949a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4842E020.18983.32163AB9@shadow.shadowgard.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020824r6b841f80k793a5716c67adbc8@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 8:45 PM,  <shadow at shadowgard.com> wrote:
> ps. I'd like to expand on this, so anybody with experience operating
> a plane or running ATC *especially* outside the US, please feel free
> to talk to me.
>
> And I could use some illustrations to show controlled vs uncontolled
> space in a system and maybe some examples of good vs bad vectors.

GT: Starports talks about this stuff.  But I think you've covered
everything it does.  Can't recall off-hand if it has any applicable
illustrations, though.  I'll look when I get home.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 09:32:42 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:32:42 -0400
Subject: [TML] Ship's locker
In-Reply-To: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080601.211811.3160.0@webmail08.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020832q785ee7d6n7af63e739d1cfa8e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:18 AM, domhanai at juno.com <domhanai at juno.com> wrote:
>  On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Evyn MacDude <infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
>
>> Man you never know what you will find in the back corner of the
>> locker...
>
>
> On one of my PC taxis (some of my former players had no ship skills) the ship's locker had an uncanny ability of holding just what was needed by PCs if they "dug around hard enough." There was also always fresh flowers for the dining area table....

I discovered and expanded (a bit) on an Asset for my someday-game:
Pack Rat.  You can pay Plot Points (how many depends on the items
monetary value) and your character remembers that he has "just what he
needs" in his back pocket. It won't let you pull out much (no weapons,
for instance).  But sometimes having the right hex-head screwdriver
can make the difference between life and death.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From raikenclw at gmail.com  Mon Jun  2 09:41:40 2008
From: raikenclw at gmail.com (Richard Aiken)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:41:40 -0400
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC3826@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>
References: <000001c8c2e4$523a8cc0$36d5adcb@Main>
	<DB1A3F9F-C9EF-4BA3-89C7-B276E2926001@travellercentral.com>
	<4843193B.5030102@ihug.co.nz>
	<D4F20443-8815-45A3-A16C-D8A4B46BF632@travellercentral.com>
	<270030C754582B458D8E7BF9EBDE7A4F0DFC3826@YTO1VEXC001.ibmcahostedmail.net>
Message-ID: <5aca9be50806020841y49b5d032j4f0e4bb8f9e09534@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Leon Wu <Leon.Wu at newswire.ca> wrote:
>> > Well, Kawerau and Auckland are a fair distance from Wellington, so
>> > probably not, and not that close to each other (200+ km
>> between them,
>> > 400+ km Wellington to Kawerau, ~650 km Wellington to Auckland). NZ's
>> > not
>> > very big, but it's long.
>>
>> That doesn't seem very far.  Aren't you serious about
>> Traveller?  :) _______________________________________________
>
> Yeah, definately less than 100 diameters. There's simply no excuse.

Couldn't y'all meet somewhere in the middle?  That'd make it about . .
. what? . . . 200-300 km for each of you.  That's *only* 120-150
miles.  :-)  Assuming an interstate-equivalent, something like 1.7 to
2.1 hours driving time.  Not something you'd want to do every day, but
once or twice a month . . . maybe.  I drove an hour and a half every
week (one way) to run my last game.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein

From hobartfloyt at neonbob.com  Mon Jun  2 09:02:01 2008
From: hobartfloyt at neonbob.com (Art O'Mary)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 10:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] A census
References: <mailman.2611.1212306725.571.tml@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006101c8c4c9$beeaf940$4083fe04@laptop>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Evyn MacDude <infojunky at ceecom.net> wrote:
Well it has been quite sometime since we have done a Census here on the Old
TML. I think it is time. So Name, age,location, favorite flavor of Traveller
and weather or not you have a current game.

Art, 50, Traveller player since 1979, both as a player and referee.
Pensacola FL area
Favorite flavor is MT with extensive transplants and house rules. Just
joined a PBEM.


From infojunky at ceecom.net  Mon Jun  2 10:35:35 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:35:35 -0700
Subject: [TML] Advice for Beginning Players and Referees
In-Reply-To: <20080601.180719.9930.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com>
References: <20080601.180719.9930.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com>
Message-ID: <48F4E158-4743-4566-950F-E6CA143AF79C@ceecom.net>


On  Jun02 08, at 01:07, domhanai at juno.com wrote:

> 1. Do what makes the players happy.
> 2. Do what you want (or makes you happy).

Now that is some of the best advice for Gming I have heard.

I would like to add Speed. don't let any body sit in a corner because  
you are too tied up with some else's action. Make sure you get around  
the table once every 15 minutes or so. If some thing needs to be  
looked up, give it to the players to do if possible, there is nothing  
I hate more is watching a GM pause everything to find, read, and then  
finally make a decision. MAke the player move, don't hesitate to spin  
off two or three into their own corner to roleplay/plot etc... Always  
leave the character a reason to interact with each other.

Use academic hours in play, let your players know, those extra 10  
minutes each hour will help you as the Gm to catch you breath, up  
keep notes etc...


Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House  
Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but  
neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that  
of any other participant, may be revealed"






From tiamat at tsoft.com  Mon Jun  2 10:39:52 2008
From: tiamat at tsoft.com (Azalais Aranxta)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TML] A census
Message-ID: <20080602092749.H62095@shell.rawbw.com>

Empress Estigarribia Kiri I, aka Malfoy.  Female.

Yes, this is a joke.  When I first became active on the TML, my
boyfriend's name was Hiroshi.  We broke up 8 years ago, LOL.

(Sorry, I don't use my full legal name on the net any more, ever
since a Japanese postdoc in a different California university
system who'd seen my postings on a Japanese BBS decided I was the
love of his life, never mind the wife and kids, and proceeded to
stalk me through our work.)

Age 44 as of 23 May.

Started playing CT in 1979 with Mike Layne and Ruie Geraj and a
bunch of other people in Charleston/South Charleston, West
Virginia.

Currently living in San Francisco.

I haven't been in a Traveller game in over 10 years, although I
tried to get into one of Doug Berry's that never happened.

If there is a Traveller game running in San Francisco proper or
the East Bay, I'd be interested.  Alas and alack, I don't drive,
so I would need a ride to any games in the South Bay, as Caltrain
is expensive, runs once an hour and stops running pretty early on
weekends.

I prefer CT and would like to try d20 or MT (which I think I
played once or twice in the 80s, but everyone in the town I was
living in then preferred Space Opera).  I'd also play Fading Suns
if anyone was running it.  I'll play GURPS but I usually need
assistance getting the setup right in points-based systems
because, well, those characters tend to do better if the ref is
in on it.

I like the Third Imperium under Strephon with particular interest
in all the court intrigues of the era.

I like to play remittence wo/men, Vargrs, nobles and slippery
sorts; I play a lot of women and gay men (the Vargrs are usually
heterosexual, but they also usually don't end up having romances
in game, because most people aren't into that).  I've played a
bunch of Irklansa, and a couple SORAG agents.

My current gaming activity is that I run a large journal-based
RPG that is currently on InsaneJournal after 5 years on
LiveJournal.  It is not however a space-oriented game.

****************************************************************
Azalais Aranxta (~malfoy)
ataniell93 on LiveJournal and Vox
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/malfoymadness

"I know the true world, and you know I do. But we needn't let it
think we all bow down." --Christopher Fry

From ajackson at iii.com  Mon Jun  2 11:05:32 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:05:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <790797EE-113A-49EC-8BD6-51759EB2C75A@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <C4664E4E.14250%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<790797EE-113A-49EC-8BD6-51759EB2C75A@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <4844285C.8060107@iii.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:

> Actually, the best RW analogue is likely submarine-to-submarine  
> combat. If you get seen, you're dead.

Nope. It's essentially impossible to hide while within weapons range. 
The best RW analogue is probably a ground vehicle fight on totally flat 
ground with zero cover, in which he who brings more firepower to the 
meeting wins. It is also likely to be about as much fun as watching 
paint dry.

From infojunky at ceecom.net  Mon Jun  2 10:43:31 2008
From: infojunky at ceecom.net (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 09:43:31 -0700
Subject: [TML] A census
In-Reply-To: <C6A27971-6E09-4C43-B625-1C1FCAACEDD8@travellercentral.com>
References: <20080601.173143.9930.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com>
	<C6A27971-6E09-4C43-B625-1C1FCAACEDD8@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <53729B44-6858-4131-AE18-E9A1627173B4@ceecom.net>


On  Jun01 08, at 17:44, Mole wrote:

>
> On Jun 2, 2008, at 12:31 AM, domhanai at juno.com wrote:
>
>> Mike Keeran, 52 (5 terms Army, 3 terms educator); Kent, Washington
>> (state)
>> CT is my first love, but I brutally & frequently mug GT, MT, TNE
>> and any slow, stupid game system that turns its back on me. Nothing
>> recent; using a solo game in MTU to develop a story line.
>
> Kent... Not far from Longveiw

Wow... Was at garden party on Sat, both of these towns came up in  
conversation. Small world thematically.

Evyn MacDude
infojunky at ceecom.net

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House  
Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but  
neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that  
of any other participant, may be revealed"






From ajackson at iii.com  Mon Jun  2 11:08:55 2008
From: ajackson at iii.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:08:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <C4664E4E.14250%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
References: <C4664E4E.14250%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48442927.2020306@iii.com>

Jerry W Barrington wrote:

> I'm thinking of investigating Attack Vector: Tactical, as it attempts to get
> back to the physics of the matter instead of starting from what the author
> would *like* things to be.

That's something of an exaggeration. Ken Burnside did quite a bit of 
tuning of the tech assumptions to try and produce a tactically 
interesting game.

From jtkwon at jtkgroup.com  Mon Jun  2 11:06:03 2008
From: jtkwon at jtkgroup.com (John Kwon)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 13:06:03 -0400
Subject: [TML] Scientific realism
In-Reply-To: <48442927.2020306@iii.com>
References: <C4664E4E.14250%jerry.barrington@gmail.com>
	<48442927.2020306@iii.com>
Message-ID: <da11fc1c0806021006p4f83625bn1fdee22904898ec6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Anthony Jackson <ajackson at iii.com> wrote:

> Jerry W Barrington wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking of investigating Attack Vector: Tactical, as it attempts to
> get
> > back to the physics of the matter instead of starting from what the
> author
> > would *like* things to be.
>
> That's something of an exaggeration. Ken Burnside did quite a bit of
> tuning of the tech assumptions to try and produce a tactically
> interesting game.
>

I don't believe there will be any major fundamental changes in our real life
understanding of physics (certainly not one that will suddenly usher in
antigravity and FTL travel as mere engineering problems),   So on the topic
of tech assumptions, I have to have a few handwaves in there, and adopt a
"view" of those handwaves that lends the campaign some consistency.

Take "jump flash" for instance.  I have no real reason for it to be in
there, other than I like the idea (especially if it looks like the jump
sequence in the Babylon 5 series).

As for the "real life" physics of space combat, we're already on the cusp of
having the real ability to at least fight in near Earth orbit - there are
now several missile systems employed by the US that work in tests (and some
in combat).  Is there a real reason that all of the missiles that work are
"kinetic kill"?

So, in my campaign, the missiles are kinetic kill.  It's probably going to
do more damage than anything short of a very, very l